My Impression of the Back Inflate vs. Jacket Style vs. BP/Wings Debate
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Here's an article on proper weighting and buoyancy that you might find informative.
http://www.scubadiving.com/talk/read.php?f=1&i=250723&t=250723
http://www.scubadiving.com/talk/read.php?f=1&i=250723&t=250723
OP
SeaJay
Contributor
No doubt. But we're talking about an idiot boater here. I'd be willing to bet that, from a positively bouyant surface situation (remember, there's got to be some air in your BC since there's some chop) I could use TWO shoulder dump valves and sink 5' faster than you could spin upside down and swim against the bouyancy of your BC. I'll bet your legs would still get hit. 20' might be a different story, after you've let some air out of your wing.
But we're picking bones here. This is silly.
No problem. Hand on air integrated, pull on assembly while holding above head and pushing the button. Right side just gets a pull. Heck, even if I just pulled on each side, I'd still deflate twice as fast as with a BP/Wing setup.
Okay. Trolling, are we? I'll bite.
I DIDN'T assume that you were in Florida. I ASKED you if you were in Florida (a rational question, since cave diving, and thus BP/wing diving, is such a common activity down there) so that we could get together and you could show me why my experience with BP/Wings was so different than yours. And I couldn't care less if you are a DIR diver. What difference would that make?
OP
SeaJay
Contributor
As in, "only dive heavy steel tanks in a drysuit?" And the valves on a drysuit aren't susceptible to failure? What about those people who aren't diving in frigid waters, yet want the capacity of large, HP steel tanks?
I'd much rather my legs were hit than my head. YMMV. By spinning, my head would already be 3' or more under almost immediately, and I'm be dumping air from the lower valve.
But, as you said, it's a silly discussion.
Problem: pull-assembly and deflator mechanism both use the same valve. You'll be dumping the same volume either way.
Or am I overlooking something?
Dunno about you, but I'm not. I was wondering how far you'd take the innuendo, however.
Check your phrasing on "rest of the cavers". "Rest" implies that either you or I are, and it's obvious you're not.
FYI:
- I'm not in Florida
- I'm not a caver
- I'm not DIR
I am one very satisfied recreational backplate/wings diver, however.
Yes. Note the plural above.
They are. If your drysuit or your wing fails, use the other for buoyancy.
It needs to be light enough when full and at significant wetsuit compression depth that you can swim it back up.
Or double up some AL tanks appropriate for your size.
OP
SeaJay
Contributor
The pull assembly uses a valve that's on your left shoulder; same for the string on your right.
The inflator/deflator valve is a separate mechanism, a third and unique valve identical to the ones that come on wings... A valve that's fully in your hand when you use it.
So it's actually three valves.
What I'm finding interesting here in our uhhh... *discussion* is that we both seem to have legitimate answers for almost any situation that either one of us can throw at the other.
I read what was posted on the other board about a "balanced rig." Interesting that he offers solutions that I didn't even think about. Such is the joy of talking to experienced divers when you are a newbie. Frankly, I love the idea of diving a "balanced rig." It seems that non-BP/wing users do it by weighting themselves properly, while BP/wing users do it by "choosing the right gear" and then weighting the remainder.
I still believe that both have their advantages, I still believe that I prefer a high-end jacket in my particular situation, and I still believe that I want to get a hold of a BP/wing with an experienced BP/wing diver and see if they could get a better result than I was able to.
And I also believe that you have your reasons for liking the BP/wing setup better. No biggie. I'm not of the same opinion. I prefer the jacket setup. You aren't of that same opinion.
That's cool. I like women. You don't. (Sorry, I'm just kidding. Couldn't resist.)
Where are you, anyway? You wouldn't know of anyone who I can dive with, who could help me to understand this fascination with BP/wing setups, do you?
But don't both the left-shoulder pull and the deflator valve share the same connection point to the bladder?
Now you've tumbled to my learning process!
I kept up this discussion not to try to dissuade you, but because I was still trying to figure out how we could have such radically different experiences with the same gear types.
Not in SC, sorry. You might check the Halcyon and Dive-Rite dealer locators, though.
If Halcyon is still running the 30-day guarantee I mentioned earlier, you might try that. There's an online setup guide, and the board here is a great resource, too.
Good luck!
divedivedive!
Guest
You know, if you're floating at the surface and can release all the air in your BC via your 3/4/100 dumps valves and *immediately* descend to a point below a passing boat (5m to be safe), then I'd venture to say that you're seriously overweighted. I dive in similar conditions - 80+ degree water - and I carry with me just enough weight (0 to 4 lbs, depending on wetsuit) to allow me to sink when I've completely exhaled. And the first 10ft of the descent go by sloooowly, until the neoprene compresses a little.
In other words... once you've gotten your weighting sorted (being new and all, trust me when I tell you that you can easily drop half of the weight on you), you'll know that this point of yours isn't relevant. And that if any boat comes along, you'll do like the rest of us, get bent over and start finning down FAST.
Not sure why anyone needs to deflate that fast, anyway. If you get your buoyancy/weighting right, you'll know that you only need a bit of air on the surface to stay afloat and underwater to stay neutral. If you're going to be carrying 20lb weights and drop them by accident underwater thus necessitating a rapid deflate - gee, either use a lift bag or stay the heck out of the water, you're a risk to everyone around you and yourself too.
Also, as for the comparison between b/p user vs SeaQuest in need of a rapid ascent... the b/p user would not be using such a heavy plate AND tanks, it's an either/or - they will have planned for enough ditchable weight such that in such an event they CAN swim it up.
In other words... once you've gotten your weighting sorted (being new and all, trust me when I tell you that you can easily drop half of the weight on you), you'll know that this point of yours isn't relevant. And that if any boat comes along, you'll do like the rest of us, get bent over and start finning down FAST.
Not sure why anyone needs to deflate that fast, anyway. If you get your buoyancy/weighting right, you'll know that you only need a bit of air on the surface to stay afloat and underwater to stay neutral. If you're going to be carrying 20lb weights and drop them by accident underwater thus necessitating a rapid deflate - gee, either use a lift bag or stay the heck out of the water, you're a risk to everyone around you and yourself too.
Also, as for the comparison between b/p user vs SeaQuest in need of a rapid ascent... the b/p user would not be using such a heavy plate AND tanks, it's an either/or - they will have planned for enough ditchable weight such that in such an event they CAN swim it up.
UP,
We can't save everyone from wasting money on "transitional" gear. With 17 dives under his belt he has all the answers and is an expert on the backplate/jacket comparison. Let him contribute to eBay's bottom line in a year or two.
Roak
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