Garth
Contributor
Oops. Good. I wrote that before I read the last post.
My openwater qualifying dives, I was not good enough.
- Thread starter kasdeva
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kasdeva
I'll stop short of saying you were set-up for failure but for an OW certification you were over taxed. Seas of that scale are significant. Coupled with the likely sea sickness it's simply an abusive thing to do to students.
I do note that in this incident and your prior posts there is a history of equalization/ear discomfort. you need to be practicing equalization daily so it becomes second nature. When you head for a dive do it on the way, when you arrive, when you gear up, when you get in the water, just before going under and with each breath while you drop. Do not wait for discomfort. frequent practice will train you to sneak up on your ears with just enough pressure. it also conditions the tubes t respond. This video is worth watching.
Difficulty in equalization and loosing control of your mask at not show stoppers and you are not likely to repeat the latter. Other than that it sounds like you demonstrated enough skills and self control to make the grade. You can of course choose to repeat the course with a more carefully chosen instructor. I suspect that you can also do well getting out there and making novice dives withing your skills, comfort and training. If you can find favor with a mentor that's cool too.
Pete
I'll stop short of saying you were set-up for failure but for an OW certification you were over taxed. Seas of that scale are significant. Coupled with the likely sea sickness it's simply an abusive thing to do to students.
I do note that in this incident and your prior posts there is a history of equalization/ear discomfort. you need to be practicing equalization daily so it becomes second nature. When you head for a dive do it on the way, when you arrive, when you gear up, when you get in the water, just before going under and with each breath while you drop. Do not wait for discomfort. frequent practice will train you to sneak up on your ears with just enough pressure. it also conditions the tubes t respond. This video is worth watching.
Difficulty in equalization and loosing control of your mask at not show stoppers and you are not likely to repeat the latter. Other than that it sounds like you demonstrated enough skills and self control to make the grade. You can of course choose to repeat the course with a more carefully chosen instructor. I suspect that you can also do well getting out there and making novice dives withing your skills, comfort and training. If you can find favor with a mentor that's cool too.
Pete
Dive Bug Bit Me
Contributor
Hey I learnt to dive in Sodwana as well. (Also with Naui). Conditions were similar to what you describe and our instructor made us sit it out in class training and the pool until he deemed conditions safe. It was a long 3 days. Some in the class could not wait it out and qualified in bass lake (the quarry we used).
I have had some wild dives in Sodwana (particularly in the afternoon when you can have strong current and big surge) and cannot believe the instructor didn't make you sit it out (or only do very early morning dives).
For my penny's worth be careful moving directly from Sodwana to the quarry. I found that the conditions are vastly different (visibility in the quarry is generally poor) and it took me 4 or 5 dives under supervision before I was safe there as well.
I would second getting out there and doing some easy diving (consider Ponto) and getting more comfortable.
I have had some wild dives in Sodwana (particularly in the afternoon when you can have strong current and big surge) and cannot believe the instructor didn't make you sit it out (or only do very early morning dives).
For my penny's worth be careful moving directly from Sodwana to the quarry. I found that the conditions are vastly different (visibility in the quarry is generally poor) and it took me 4 or 5 dives under supervision before I was safe there as well.
I would second getting out there and doing some easy diving (consider Ponto) and getting more comfortable.
CamG
Contributor
Greetings Kasdeva and I am glad you are OK! First and foremost it sounds like the chosen dive site is an advanced location on a rough day.
Just from what you have posted it sounds like you were handling the conditions pretty well short of the negative entry.
A hot drop is not a OW skill at least in my part of the world, I have employed the technique in other areas after being a AOW with considerable experience.
EARs are the big concern, no room for a problem.
I agree with a lot of the posts that there were errors in the prescribed training regiment.
As to your desire to repeat the coarse that is entirely up to you but your desire to do so tells me you are not comfortable with your skills / training.
Retake the class or possibly another OP will allow you to audit or do a refresher to bring you up to date on the skills you missed.
I would seriously consider taking AOW with this OP to help you attain the proper local diving skills required to dive in your local area.
FIND A MENTOR and dive, you will learn about dive site evaluation and personal evaluation if you are up to a particular dive or not!
If you ever feel you are not up to it.....BAG THE DIVE!
Anyone at anytime can call a dive! NO QUESTIONS ASKED! Usually there are questions asked to make sure that you are ok, physically.
Later you can examine just what made you feel uncomfortable and work on that.
7 ft seas with swells are considered in most parts of the world pretty sporty and dangerous unless properly trained and or prepared.
As you found rarely do things go perfectly and those conditions are very demanding enough when issues arise it can get bad very quickly.
It is very good to hear that all survived and that some bagged out early due to conditions.
Never feel bad calling a dive! You are the customer and it is your dime!
Good luck and with your superior attitude and determination you will be on your way in no time!
Practice your skills till they become reflexes and always dive with in your training / comfort level.
CamG Keep diving....Keep training....Keep learning!
Just from what you have posted it sounds like you were handling the conditions pretty well short of the negative entry.
A hot drop is not a OW skill at least in my part of the world, I have employed the technique in other areas after being a AOW with considerable experience.
EARs are the big concern, no room for a problem.
I agree with a lot of the posts that there were errors in the prescribed training regiment.
As to your desire to repeat the coarse that is entirely up to you but your desire to do so tells me you are not comfortable with your skills / training.
Retake the class or possibly another OP will allow you to audit or do a refresher to bring you up to date on the skills you missed.
I would seriously consider taking AOW with this OP to help you attain the proper local diving skills required to dive in your local area.
FIND A MENTOR and dive, you will learn about dive site evaluation and personal evaluation if you are up to a particular dive or not!
If you ever feel you are not up to it.....BAG THE DIVE!
Anyone at anytime can call a dive! NO QUESTIONS ASKED! Usually there are questions asked to make sure that you are ok, physically.
Later you can examine just what made you feel uncomfortable and work on that.
7 ft seas with swells are considered in most parts of the world pretty sporty and dangerous unless properly trained and or prepared.
As you found rarely do things go perfectly and those conditions are very demanding enough when issues arise it can get bad very quickly.
It is very good to hear that all survived and that some bagged out early due to conditions.
Never feel bad calling a dive! You are the customer and it is your dime!
Good luck and with your superior attitude and determination you will be on your way in no time!
Practice your skills till they become reflexes and always dive with in your training / comfort level.
CamG Keep diving....Keep training....Keep learning!
NAUI Course Director so know a little about the standards. The list above is a suggested sequence of 4 of the 5 open water dives needed for NAUI certs not a standard of how the dives must be completed. I haven't looked at the other thread yet but it does seem there is some there is at least very questionable judgment by the instructor in taking students into these conditions. Depending in the length the student stayed under on the last dive it does look that he was at least one dive short of being certified ( a standards violation). If he did not do a ESA in open water that is a standards violation, rescue scenario missing? Don't know what the OP did on the first dive in the quarry, so hard to pinpoint a standards violation without more info.
Soakedlontra
Contributor
Mamma mia!
It's a miracle that nobody got seriously injured during those hellish dives! That sounds like a kind of 'training' that Navy Seals would do no not open water students!
You handled those appalling conditions really well even if, unfortunately, your ear drum ruptured. Personally I would have never dived feeling so sick and in those sea conditions at all in the first place.
As several people mentioned here aborting a dive for any reasons is a very important thing to do in scubadiving. It is not a sign of being a coward or a bad diver. On the contrary it shows that the diver really evaluate the different angles of a particular situation and makes a final judgement based on what is the safest thing to do. Aborting a dive can save you a lot of underwater grief and even your life!
It seems to me that diving safety standards in the US are much higher than what it seems to be in SA. Generally here the majority of divers would have considered the sea conditions that you described being seriously dangerous, while in SA everybody would perceive the same conditions as 'normal'. Ultimately is up to you to set your own standard according to your skills and level of training even if it goes against the general accepted rules of your country.
In scubadiving making mistakes is a very useful thing to do, it is part of the learning process. How you 'control' the level of the mistake can be very tricky, though. Personally I try to prevent mistakes that could originate from equipment failure as much as I can by maintaining my gear in good conditions and do a thorough buddy check, that includes a bubble check too (something that the standard agencies do not teach to do) and plan my dive carefully including figuring out how much gas I would need to do that dive, develop good underwater communication skills etc...Diving with a more experienced diver has been very good for me too.
However, sometimes no matter what you do mistakes are inevitable and how well you would respond to them depends on different factors: confidence (the more you dove the greater it gets), familiarity with your and your buddy gear, knowledge of the local conditions just to mention a few. More experienced divers can add more and correct me if I am talking nonsense. I am still learning myself
I am glad that you have decided to keep diving.
Happy Safe Diving!
It's a miracle that nobody got seriously injured during those hellish dives! That sounds like a kind of 'training' that Navy Seals would do no not open water students!
You handled those appalling conditions really well even if, unfortunately, your ear drum ruptured. Personally I would have never dived feeling so sick and in those sea conditions at all in the first place.
As several people mentioned here aborting a dive for any reasons is a very important thing to do in scubadiving. It is not a sign of being a coward or a bad diver. On the contrary it shows that the diver really evaluate the different angles of a particular situation and makes a final judgement based on what is the safest thing to do. Aborting a dive can save you a lot of underwater grief and even your life!
It seems to me that diving safety standards in the US are much higher than what it seems to be in SA. Generally here the majority of divers would have considered the sea conditions that you described being seriously dangerous, while in SA everybody would perceive the same conditions as 'normal'. Ultimately is up to you to set your own standard according to your skills and level of training even if it goes against the general accepted rules of your country.
In scubadiving making mistakes is a very useful thing to do, it is part of the learning process. How you 'control' the level of the mistake can be very tricky, though. Personally I try to prevent mistakes that could originate from equipment failure as much as I can by maintaining my gear in good conditions and do a thorough buddy check, that includes a bubble check too (something that the standard agencies do not teach to do) and plan my dive carefully including figuring out how much gas I would need to do that dive, develop good underwater communication skills etc...Diving with a more experienced diver has been very good for me too.
However, sometimes no matter what you do mistakes are inevitable and how well you would respond to them depends on different factors: confidence (the more you dove the greater it gets), familiarity with your and your buddy gear, knowledge of the local conditions just to mention a few. More experienced divers can add more and correct me if I am talking nonsense. I am still learning myself
I am glad that you have decided to keep diving.
Happy Safe Diving!
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scobyroo
Registered
This story was insane. If my OW was that intimidating I don't know that I would want to go back into it either.
All the power to you for deciding to keep it up.
All the power to you for deciding to keep it up.
Limoges Diver
Contributor
I was recently on a cruise, and I know I get seasick when I'm in a small boat with rough seas. To combat that, I took some seasickness pills they give away from free on the ship. I recommend EVERYONE that is susceptible to seasickness to take these pills: When diving in Cozumel, the seas were a bit rough (not as bad as what the OP went though, but enough to make me sick), and the pills worked beautifully.
So, I am going to lay a significant portion of the blame on the dive shop: they know what the seas are like in that area, and they should have talked about combating seasickness. I bet if the OP weren't seasick, his experience would have been much better. I know this because I did my OW cert dives in a quarry, and I find them to be difficult enough. I did have issues with my mask (not knowing how to seal it properly while wearing a hood - I know how to now, BTW), and I had to do my skills with water in my eyes: talk about distractions, and increased breathing rate! hehe!
To the OP: when you are having difficulties, learn to relax, and tackle one problem at a time, with the most important one first. In my very short experience (only 25 dives to date), I have had my regulator kicked out of my mouth twice, and my mask kicked off once, got slammed into by 11 other divers when the DM called a stop in high current to check air pressures, and got lost. At no time did I allow myself to get excited - I just relaxed, went to that place in my head where I remember the skills, and thank the Gods that I learned those skills. I find it easier (for some reason - maybe no distractions) to close my eyes (good practice really, in case of real low visibility), find my regulator or mask, and trust in the training you got. Also, if there is one skill you don't like (mine is mask removal and retrieval), then practice the crap out of that over and over again until you are great at doing it. Another good thing is to never get angry: when you get angry, your heart rate goes up and with it your breathing rate. Expect the unpleasant crap to happen, and accept it as par for course: this way you will never let small crap ruin a dive for you.
There you go: advice from a noob!
So, I am going to lay a significant portion of the blame on the dive shop: they know what the seas are like in that area, and they should have talked about combating seasickness. I bet if the OP weren't seasick, his experience would have been much better. I know this because I did my OW cert dives in a quarry, and I find them to be difficult enough. I did have issues with my mask (not knowing how to seal it properly while wearing a hood - I know how to now, BTW), and I had to do my skills with water in my eyes: talk about distractions, and increased breathing rate! hehe!
To the OP: when you are having difficulties, learn to relax, and tackle one problem at a time, with the most important one first. In my very short experience (only 25 dives to date), I have had my regulator kicked out of my mouth twice, and my mask kicked off once, got slammed into by 11 other divers when the DM called a stop in high current to check air pressures, and got lost. At no time did I allow myself to get excited - I just relaxed, went to that place in my head where I remember the skills, and thank the Gods that I learned those skills. I find it easier (for some reason - maybe no distractions) to close my eyes (good practice really, in case of real low visibility), find my regulator or mask, and trust in the training you got. Also, if there is one skill you don't like (mine is mask removal and retrieval), then practice the crap out of that over and over again until you are great at doing it. Another good thing is to never get angry: when you get angry, your heart rate goes up and with it your breathing rate. Expect the unpleasant crap to happen, and accept it as par for course: this way you will never let small crap ruin a dive for you.
There you go: advice from a noob!
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bottomfeeder22
Contributor
Sounds like a checkout dive from hell.... glad you have the perseverance to give it another go!
I don't know if this is healthy/safe, but when I have one ear clogged and one clear, I stick my finger in my cleared ear and then pinch my nose and blow... works like a charm for me. Use at your own risk!
I don't know if this is healthy/safe, but when I have one ear clogged and one clear, I stick my finger in my cleared ear and then pinch my nose and blow... works like a charm for me. Use at your own risk!
MdMedic
Registered
I guess I picked the right classes. Did our OW in a fresh water quarry. And I had excellent instructors, who refused to move to the next ecsersize till we ALL mastered the one we were working on. If you are ever on the East coast of the US, go to Lake Rawlings for some excellent inland diving. Lake Rawlings - A Scuba and Camping Park
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