New diver having integrated weight problem

[Mudd]

Many problems I have seen with crap rental gear (and I rented for far too many years) seem to stem from / be exacerbated by inadequate rinsing. With the WI systems if there is sand or buildup it may cause some issues. A visual inspection of the outside may not be sufficient proof of a clean inside. If you continue to rent, you may want to consider doing your own soak & flush pre-dive just to be on the safe side.

I take with me on any shore dive a cheap water sprayer for a quick spritz-down afterwards. This little addition could also be used to wet straps, rinse masks car-side and flush pockets if need be.

 

[The Chairman]

This doesn't make sense. I have never seen or had a weight pocket not stay in unless it was installed wrong or had parts missing. I know you think you had it in correctly, but I have serious doubts about that. I have never lost weights from an integrated system, though I have found more than my share of weights and weight belts on the wrecks and reefs here in Key Largo.

I remember one Invade the Keys where this guy with a brand new BCD, had pockets that kept falling out. He was certain that he was putting them in correctly but asked me to look at it for him anyway. This particular system had a plastic post inside the BC where a piece of thick mono on a handle would thread through it. I looked at it for a moment and realized his problem. The plastic stiffener also had a hole in it and the post on the BC was supposed to go through it before you threaded the mono through the hole. In other words, he had it half right. Apparently the shop never showed him how, he never asked or he was too rushed and certain that he could figure it out as he went.

This is probably not the system you used, but it illustrates a good point. If you rent or buy new gear, get the shop to show you how it works before you leave. Don't rely on intuition or mechanical ability to figure it out: ASK. Make them show you how to add/remove air, install weights and the proper procedure for an emergency weight dump before you leave. It shouldn't take long and would have prevented this scenario.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

This is one of the reasons that I do not like diving with people using an unfamiliar WI bc. Usually they have not been taught how to properly load it, what it's suggested limits are, and more inporatntly how to distribute the weight they are carrying. It's a recipe for someone to get hurt. Just because the pockets will hold 10 or 11 pounds does not mean it's a good idea to do that. In fact IMO it's asking for trouble.

Warm water divers that only need a few pounds may not experience much of an issue if they lose a pocket. Cold water divers are likely to if half of the 20-26 lbs or whatever they are carrying are.

This why I don't want my students that choose to use WI bc's to load the pockets themselves with more than maybe 4-5 lbs in each. Then distribute the rest between a belt, trim pockets, a tank neck weight if necessary, or a combination of all of them.

At the worst even a moderately over weighted diver will only need to drop maybe 4-5 lbs to get positive enough to start ascending yet still maintain some control over their ascent rate. Then once on the surface they can start dropping more if necessary.

I'd also.have to ask if you did a proper weight check with the bc before you actually used it for dives. That only takes ten minutes or so once you're shown how. And I'd recommend never diving with a bc that you have not done that with at the very start of the dive. Another good idea is before you get in the water have your buddy remove and replace your weights while you are wearing the bc before you even get in the water. If it's too easy or worse to hard for them to do you may want to revisit the choice of system, how much you have stuffed in them, or what needs to.be done to.make work as it should.
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[offroadr1]

with my WI BC, i dont see how the pockets could slip out unless it did not fit properly. if they are clipped in correctly, the areas with the pockets need to be tight to your sides to provide enough rigidity to keep the pockets from moving around. unless, there is some sort of insert that holds them rigid. my scuba pro BC, nor my dive rite ever had issues with pockets dropping.

 

[oly5050user]

Not sure if this is a legitimate fix, but during my open water certification, my instructor didn't have enough weights for me to stay down easily (I'm a 21 year old male, 165 lbs, decent physical shape) but I seem naturally more bouyant than most people. So, my instructor took two ankle weights and attached them around the first stage of the regulator on the tank, and the added weight compensated for the weight missing in my BCD.

At 21 yr of age and 165lbs I have to say that using 22 lbs is too much weight for fresh water..Think about it,if correct amount of lead used then at depth if you loose a pocket you should not shoot to surface out of control. Buoyancy is lost at depth and thereby air should be added to bc,properly weighed there should be only a small bit of air in bc at depth,if any is truly needed. Try getting rid of perhaps 6 lbs-use 16lbs total- and do a buoyancy check.Add more from there if truly required.
As only an example, I am 61 yr old same weight as yourself and use 14lbs at Dutch. I may use 18lb-20lb in a DUI CF200 suit with 400 gram undergarment(thick stuff)...I would say to work on buoyancy checks on the beginning of your dive or take a peak performance buoyancy class. Also inspect any rental gear for proper function before leaving the facility,or invest in purchasing your own gear if you think you are staying in diving.Do not worry about if you expand your horizons in diving and maybe buy the "wrong gear".If you are staying in diving you will wind up own multiples of everything.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

First, good job dealing with the situation. As to equipment failure, lack of familiarity with the integrated system may have resulted in the pockets not being secured properly. That's not a criticism of the op, and it may be the fasteners were faulty, but familiarity with equipment, and a good buddy check to make sure the pockets are secure may , I say MAY, have prevented the problem. I have integrated bc's that secure the pockets with a clip, and others that use velcro. I never lost a weight pocket that was properly secured, but I have lost one I thought was clipped in and wait wasn't. I like the Zeagle comments. I like Sea Quest as well.
DivemasterDennis

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

This doesn't make sense. I have never seen or had a weight pocket not stay in unless it was installed wrong or had parts missing. I know you think you had it in correctly, but I have serious doubts about that. I have never lost weights from an integrated system, though I have found more than my share of weights and weight belts on the wrecks and reefs here in Key Largo.

I have had personal experience with Mares BCD's. I purchased 3 with the MRS2 weight systems (same as OP). After the first false drop, we not only checked for the click but integrated a buddy check for it. Both my sons and I have had multiple false drops with the Mares system since then. I too assumed the first couple of times it was "user error" as this is the most common failure mode for diving issues. Eventually however I came to the conclusion it was simply a poor design, that is very picky to use safely. There are several post on the Mares forum regarding similar issues from multiple users.

Below are my experiences:

- 2 of the pockets had the zipper simply part (so the weight would fall), Mares was nice about this and replaced them free. This is not a design issue, but a quality control issue.

- 1 of the pockets had a key strap pull through a slot and allowed the "clicked in" pocket to drop instantly (I fixed). The strap end is designed with a T in the end that allows it to be removed easy (or by accident), I consider that a designed in weakness.

- 2x I traced the pocket falling out to having stuff stowed in the adjacent cargo pocket. Simply said, the weight pocket was not overloaded, but the adjacent cargo pocket was overloaded. Having the weight release because the cargo pocket is overloaded is again, a very weak design and at least should have a warning tag or something to make people think about it before overloading their cargo pockets.

- On one pocket the mechanism became worn, I filed it down to a better shape to click in place with a file. This may have been because I use them a lot. Since I have had 10 pockets (6 original and 4 replacements) they get mixed up and moved around and one combination became a problem. It may also have been a quality issue I did not detect, don't know for sure.

- A couple of times I did not use the velcro to hold the weight in place (if you have only a small amount of lead, it can slide forward and the momentum will release the pouch. I guess this is "user error" technically as it does mention using the velcro to hold small amounts of weight so they don't shift in the pocket. However, they don't tell you it will release the weights and I doubt a person renting the gear is going to read the manual. Mares makes a smaller version of the MRS2 (8 lbs vs 13lbs) that does not have the velcro, so it only an issue for some.

- 2X it just snagged on the boat ladder boarding after a dive (found one, lost one to Davey Jones). Again, this is design. When you put the weight in, standing up vertical, the handles are positioned OK. However, once you go horizontal, the weight pouches move forward until all slack is taken up. When you end the dive, the weight pouches remain forward with the handles stick out several inches. Very easy to snag on a boat ladder unless you remember to push them back in before boarding.


On the other hand, my experience with Zeagle, weight belts, weight harnesses and a couple of rentals had been flawless in this respect (some of the rentals were bad for other reasons, but no weight drops). I have found several weight pouches from others at the local dive spot, have no idea how they dropped, but they did.

We still own 2 of the Mares BCD's. When diving cold water we simply use a reliable DUI harness or belt and leave the pouches safely at home.

 

[Searcaigh]

If you rent or buy new gear, get the shop to show you how it works before you leave. Don't rely on intuition or mechanical ability to figure it out: ASK. Make them show you how to add/remove air, install weights and the proper procedure for an emergency weight dump before you leave. It shouldn't take long and would have prevented this scenario.

A very good point

I always check the pressure on my tanks before I load them into my car at the dive shop, especially when I am collecting a load of tanks for a weekend of diving. Who is going to believe that you had a low fill when you bring them back after a weekend.

 

[Steel.Phoenix]

Hi, OP here, thanks for the advice and critique. I'm going to provide a bit more information including something I found out by emailing the dive shop!

When diving last Saturday at Dutch Springs, the water temp at the surface was around 70F. I was wearing a 5mm setsuit, 3mm hood, 3mm boots, and 3mm gloves. I tend to have a low tolerance for cold water so I feel more comfortable in extra protection. That being said, I haven't done a proper weight check outside of my saltwater cert dive, and I probably could have gotten away with 16-18#, especially because I wasn't wearing farmer johns or anything.

The most interesting bit here is that I emailed the dive shop and found out the BCD I used was none-other than a Mares. I should have been keyed off as soon as I saw the red-handled weight system on the Pegasus I was looking at. The only difference is that the Pegasus is a back-inflate BCD while the rental one was not. This means I will not be going with the BCD I posted in the first post!!

Looking more into the Zeagle Stiletto I'm really liking their rip-cord design. Again I'm virtually 100% sure I did not have a misunderstanding putting the weights in, because I had my much-more experienced buddy help me fit them back in while they were hanging out on the 2nd dive. Probably something I should have mentioned in the original post too!

As far as the rental computer goes, I'm more comfortable getting my own and learning it through-and-through, and learning the dive tables more in-depth in case something like that happens again.

I won't complain about the "unnamed" dive shop too much, but they seemed to be a little apathetic, mainly because they were so close to Dutch Springs and probably get dozens of newbie renters every weekend.

 

[DukeAMO]

We have Zeagles too. They work well. Re-threading them is slightly hard, but it's not so bad; it probably takes 5 minutes with the manual next to you the first few times. Fortunately you rarely have to re-thread them, because you would only do that if you dumped your weights. You just load them from the top and zip the top of the pocket, and the zipcord release is on the bottom.

+1 to the suggestion to move some weight to the trim pockets and/or ankle weights around the tank. I have to move about half of my weight up to hover horizontally, so it's a good idea for trim purposes too.

A Mares Puck will go into a deco mode of you ascend too quickly for more than a few feet, so I bet that's why yours required an 8-minute stop. (I'm sure some other models do that too.) And then when the dive is over, it'll go into a "fast ascent" error mode for a day or so.