New Zeagle Bail-out System

[Chad Carney]

It's nothing like a 4x or 8x change in volume or pressure (it's actually less than 1%).
Terry

Terry, I know you understand Boyle's law or you would not have agreed there would be some increased number of breaths.

For a visual reference, check out the third graphic on this link. It's an awesome animated demonstration. http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/boyle.html

I think you are getting tripped up by the image of a dive cylinder being a rigid container. In fact it's not, once the valve is open to the demand regulator. It's just like having that flexible piston on the jar in the animation.

Another thing that messes with peoples minds is that they are used to reading a pressure gauge to know how much gas they have. But it's not like a fuel gauge that is measuring a liquid volume. Wear a set of doubles on a shallow dive and you'll get what I'm saying, it seems like the gauge never moves and you can dive all day! Conversely when I did the swim test with the 6 cu ft tank the needle of my psig seemed barely slower than a second hand on a watch!

If we attached an empty plastic bag to the regulator of the open tank that was empty at 99 ft, and then purged it at the surface, the combined volume of the plastic bag and the cylinder at ambient pressure will be 4 x the volume of just the cylinder at ambient pressure. (Assuming no temperature change and no leaks in the bag, etc.)

So it's exactly like a 4x, 5x or 8x change in volume and pressure.

Have a great weekend!

Chad

 

[Web Monkey]

Terry, I know you understand Boyle's law or you would not have agreed there would be some increased number of breaths.

For a visual reference, check out the third graphic on this link. It's an awesome animated demonstration. http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/boyle.html

I think you are getting tripped up by the image of a dive cylinder being a rigid container. In fact it's not, once the valve is open to the demand regulator. It's just like having that flexible piston on the jar in the animation.

The tank is rigid and is nothing like a piston. The regulator is a place for air to exit the tank, and doesn't make it any more like a piston.

If you're at 99' and suck the last breath of air out of the tank, you have just equalized the tank pressure with the ambient pressure (assuming the reg has a 0 psi pressure drop, which it actually doesn't)

If you ascent to 33', you now have 29.4 PSI (66'/33') = 2 ATM, 2 * 14.7 = 29.4 which is a little less than 1% of a standard 3000 PSI fill, not 200% or 400% or anything like it.

I don't mean to drag out an argument, but I also don't wany anybody reading this thread to beleive that by ascending they get some big bonus amount of air. In fact, depending on the reg, they may get no extra air at all.

Terry

 

[in_cavediver]

The tank is rigid and is nothing like a piston. The regulator is a place for air to exit the tank, and doesn't make it any more like a piston.

If you're at 99' and suck the last breath of air out of the tank, you have just equalized the tank pressure with the ambient pressure (assuming the reg has a 0 psi pressure drop, which it actually doesn't)

If you ascent to 33', you now have 29.4 PSI (66'/33') = 2 ATM, 2 * 14.7 = 29.4 which is a little less than 1% of a standard 3000 PSI fill, not 200% or 400% or anything like it.

I don't mean to drag out an argument, but I also don't wany anybody reading this thread to beleive that by ascending they get some big bonus amount of air. In fact, depending on the reg, they may get no extra air at all.

Terry

The misconception is that as we all know, air expands as we ascend. We know that for if we go from 2atm to 1atm, the volume of gas in an elastic container will double. The problem is a tank isn't elastic, its rigid. There is some elasticity and its measured during hydro's but the for this discussion, the miniscule change is negligible so the internal volume doesn't change.

So, inside the tank, at a depth of say 4atm, 99 feet or 60psi, we equalize the tank to ambient. IE, 60psi. If we go to 2atm, 33ft or 30 psi ambient, the tank now has a net difference of 30psi over ambient. No volume gain, no expansion just a change in ambient pressure giving a bit of 'pressure'.

edit: I agree with Terry - Not Chad, sorry for the wrong quote

 

[Chad Carney]

The tank is

If you ascent to 33', you now have 29.4 PSI (66'/33') = 2 ATM, 2 * 14.7 = 29.4 which is a little less than 1% of a standard 3000 PSI fill, not 200% or 400% or anything like it.

I don't mean to drag out an argument, but I also don't wany anybody reading this thread to beleive that by ascending they get some big bonus amount of air.
Terry

I never said there would be any big bonus of air, just 4x, 5x or 8x what the diver had left in the tank when he stopped breathing on it. (Depending on the depth and comparing it to what would be left at the surface.) It's pretty common knowledge that it's a very small volume of gas.)

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the details.

Peace and dive safe!

Chad

 

[joetex0777]

I don't have the pricing or part #s yet, but Zeagle should right away.

It will include:
- 6 cu ft alum. cylinder
- Razor/Envoy regulator
- Pony bottle holder
- Zipper mounting piece
- Pony gauge
- (Possibly optional) over-pressure valve

Is the pony gauge being included a misprint?

 

[Chad Carney]

Joetex,


Zeagle decided to offer it in multiple ways, and to add a gauge choice as an option, as is the OPV. We have two gauges, and several different hose lengths.

The quote is from March 2006, way before the new bag shown here even came out. http://www.zeagle.com/index.php?src=news&prid=32&category=Product News

I had a pic of a zip mount piece that liooks like the one here, which is also still available. http://www.zeagle.com/index.php?submenu=Accessories&src=gendocs&link=Accy_LTD

Chad

 

[Cheekymonkey]

Yea the idea of using it for a drysuit bottle is pretty neat, while I wouldn't use this for myself its a nice idea that manufacturers are looking at things like this.

 

[redrover]

Zeagle has finally put all the pieces together to complete a new bail-out system, light enough to leave on your BC all the time, and designed for hands free operation.

It's small enough with the 6 cu ft bottle to fit between your wing and harness, like the one designed for the Ranger LTD, except the zipper mounting attachment is sewn onto the LTD.

Now that zipper mounting piece is available to fit any Zeagle BC.

Pictured below separately and mounted on the Stiletto, regulator upright or down. (It probably will fit other brands too with a little modification.) This can also allow the mounting of all the other LTD options seen here: http://www.zeagle.com/index.php?submenu=Accessories&src=gendocs&link=Accy_LTD

I don't have the pricing or part #s yet, but Zeagle should right away.

It will include:
- 6 cu ft alum. cylinder
- Razor/Envoy regulator
- Pony bottle holder
- Zipper mounting piece
- Pony gauge
- (Possibly optional) over-pressure valve

Please pardon the rough photos.

Chad
Zeagle FL Rep

Chad,
Thanks for mentioning this, I’m interested. You said with modifications it might work with other BC’s, any thoughts about that for a Small Seaquest Diva or small Oceanic Probe LX?

 

[joetex0777]

Zeagle decided to offer it in multiple ways, and to add a gauge choice as an option, as is the OPV. We have two gauges, and several different hose lengths.
Chad

Chad, I wasnt criticizing. I appreciate all the information you provide. I have been asking several LDS about this system for the past 2 weeks and not only have they not heard about it but they havent been able to get half the info from calling Z than we have recieved from you.

You say that there is 2 different gauges available. Can you give more info on those. Also, do you have pricing on the gauges and the tank-to-tank fill whip.

Thanks again,
Joe

 

[Chad Carney]

Chad,
Thanks for mentioning this, I’m interested. You said with modifications it might work with other BC’s, any thoughts about that for a Small Seaquest Diva or small Oceanic Probe LX?

redrover,

The zipper mount is Zeagle's unique design, which is cool because it's as easy as a zip to take it on and off. this makes loading the bag real easy. It's possible you could attach it to a Seaquest Diva, but sorry, I have not looked at one closely in over 7 years. (Former SQ dealer.)

The other mount with grommet holes should be easy to attache with cable ties or maybe with Zeagle quick link /strap accessories.

Chad