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I must admit, I haven't read all the responses here but I spend a night or two a month on SB just to keep up with issues related to SCUBA. Disclaimer -- I'm a newbie. My wife and I are in our ealy 40's and just picked up the sport a 13 months ago. In that time, we've logged 37 dives and still have SO much to learn. It's something we can do together that we both absolutely love!

As a newbie, I haven't posted many questions or answers, mostly just experiences. The most interesting posts I read have responses from veterans as well as newer divers giving their experiences with the same situations. I ask most of my questions of DMs or experienced divers on the boats I'm on and ask for any feedback they may have for me after our dives (never before because I don't want them looking at me instead of enjoying their dive, just let me know if they notice something I'm doing, good or bad, afterwards). Thanks to all the SB members who patiently answer our questions patiently and thoughtfully!
 
I have been diving since 81 but i will always think of my self as some one with something to learn or a "newbie".
 
I have over 50 years experience on SCUBA and thousands of dives yet I still find there is much I can learn about diving from folks here who have a different set of experiences than I have enjoyed. I think we old timers owe it to the "newbies" to provide them with the best possible answer to any question asked with serious intent. Of course there are those (old and new alike) who have opinions not well backed by good theory, but even so it is easier to get them to see the point if one responds with patience. To those who are really hard to read, there is always the ignore list.

If we are to keep the activity of SCUBA going strong (and help keep dive equipment manufacturers and dive operations in business for our own use) we need tio promote diving among newer divers, not discourage it.

I still remember the day i boarded the King Neptune and one of my favorite DM's Devin said your in for a treat Dr. Bill is diving with us today. My wife and I sort of felt like Dr. Bill took us under his wing for the day talking to us about our dive experience, his dive experience, where the best stuff was at each dive site and best of all some stories about his diving through the years. The next time we went to Catalina and boarded the boat I was expecting to see Dr. Bill and even asked if he was joining us on that day. He wasn't and it was very special to spend the day with him. Even with 400+ dives since that day and some very special dives I've been able to do, I still think of that great day all the time and it was back in early 2008.
 
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I think that it is important to remember that we are all newbees in some activities and experienced in others. The trick is to treat newbees with the same respect and understanding that YOU want when confronted with the unknown and are seeking advice.

For instance, Mantra, I am going use you as an example :D for a moment. You may be a newer diver but you seem to have great experience with internet forum communication as seen by your explanation here http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/413348-bitterness-scuba-instructors-16.html. I have goofed several times in this style of communication as I am not as experienced or as knowledgeable as others thus a newbee, even though I have been around awhile.

There are many more things I will learn in the future from so called "newbees" (although I prefer the term newer divers) that I see your contributions here on Scubaboard and out in the real world as very valuable and worthwhile. Hopefully I can return the favour. Keep posting and asking questions!
 
I have also noticed how some very experienced posters jump straight to harsh criticism when someone is asking advice or sharing an experience. It seems to be a lot of the same posters too that will pick on everything and never have anything but criticism to share. It's a shame because I think it scares people away, newbies and not-so-newbies, and hinders this great learning environment. I am trying not to let this dishearten me or prevent me from asking my "stupid" questions, because I can also see that there are a lot of tolerant, humble and helpful divers in the forum too, and so far I have received some great advice from them.

I have been diving for 5 years now, and still consider myself a newbie. In the past 2 years I have spent a lot more time in dive shops hanging around dive professionals, and I can see there are some big egos out there. I have often wondered if scuba somehow attracts people like this, but then I have decided no, I think it is more of a natural psychological reaction to sharing the same interest with so many people which sparks feelings of competitiveness and also insecurity (at the realization that they are not as unique as they thought they were). Someone who has dedicated a lot of time and energy to become something, and places a lot of weight on their identity as this or that profession, will naturally feel a little bit threatened by others who are doing or have done the same as them. I have seen this with professionals, academics, and even travellers. Take a look at the lonely planet forum, it is full of big egos that are always trying to one up other traveller's experiences and rip into posters who dare comment about something that don't know as much as he/she does about a certain topic.

As far as diving goes, I see it more with dive professionals working in the industry, rather than just experienced recreational divers. I have experienced a lot of cliquey snobbery towards less experienced divers in the diving community. If you are just a student recreational diver, they are more than happy to help, but then once you start talking about taking your diving to the pro level, some divers seem to give the attitude. In many ways I think it is a territorial thing. Let's face it, there are a lot of people out there that want to work in the dive industry, but there is a limited amount of jobs, and it is very easy to get certified to become a dive professional. I think it ticks some of the more experienced professionals off that they are considered in the same league professionally, and have to possibly compete for jobs with people who are not as experienced as themselves. I can understand this because I have experienced something similar myself. Years ago, I studied to be a yoga teacher. After taking my personal practice very seriously for many years, I went away to an ashram and spent months training to be a teacher. Afterwards, I came to my hometown and the most recent yoga craze hit and brought all kinds of new teachers onto the scene. Nothing wrong with a little bit of healthy competition, however, I was bothered when I found out that all the new teachers in my area had been certified by a weekend course offered by a travelling van! It was hard to stay humble and to not feel a sense of superiority and criticism towards the others, and I did my best to contain my ego (like a good yogi!). Now that I am older and have given up teaching, I feel a bit silly for feeling threatened by other people who were pursuing the same goals as me, but I also know that this is a natural reaction for normal human beings. It happens to people pursuing anything, professions, hobbies, academics. We need to prove our worthiness, and sometimes for some people, that translates into criticizing the expertise, opinions, or experiences of others so that we can keep ourselves on our pedestals.

Also, we have to keep in mind that people say things online that they would word differently in person. It is so easy to be snarky on a forum because you can maintain distance and (to a certain point) anonymity. I also think it is worth pointing out that sometimes words come out wrong in writing. Without facial expressions, tones of voice, body language, etc. to accompany our words, sometimes they can come across as harsh even if they were meant to come across as something else, like concern, for example, as Jax said.

We all have our stories to share, and we all have the right to express our opinions, whether harsh or gentle, that is what these forums are for. My advice to newbies is not to take it personally, and just to remind yourself when people are being harsh with you, it is either out of concern or ego. If its concern, feel grateful for them, if it is ego, feel sorry for them.
 
I have 2 divers on their first ocean dives on the boat with me today. They have re-awakened the wonder of diving in me, and the smiles on their faces make me remember why slogging this damn boat around the Caribbean is worth it.

I thought it was the chance to see young, attractive females in exotic locations was it? (Just kidding man, I have read enough posts from you to know it is a love of diving).

I can see where the OP is concerned about new divers offering 'advice' etc, but there are some things that me, as a new diver, experience that are unique to me. As such, I can reiterate what some more knowledgeable divers have told me, refer them to these people, or actually relay 1st hand experience of the testing as well as initial gear purchases. Best example I can give is almost ALL the 'experts' say to wait and just rent all your gear, the major problem with this for me specifically is that I am so tall the dive shops do NOT carry wetsuit and BCD that fit me in a manner that was comfortable and safe. If I followed their 'advice' I would NEVER have been able to get certified (the shop didn't have a BCD that would fit me properly).
 
This mindset is certainly not unique to diving, as many here can attest. Please forgive the very long winded reply. I'm a long-ago certified newbie to diving, just starting up again after decades off.

My professional medical training was at a very large & well-known hospital in New England. There's a paper on the wall that says I'm qualified to act as an consultant or expert in my field. At this point in my career, I'm taking on roles of department chairman, director, etc. Every single day, I learn something new from folks just out of training or with far less formal education. I'm reviewing a chart where a physician was dismissive of a nurse's concerns about an EKG. Without significantly considering her comments, he disregarded the question. That event had a very bad outcome.

It's not that hard to remember being at the bottom of the ladder. I was once the guy who picked up bloody towels from the floor after the medical people did their job. I looked up to them, and was very aware of the gulf between my knowledge and theirs. Fast forward 20 years, and living on the other side of that, I try very hard to be approachable and patient. In emergencies or immediate threats, I will be terse. Otherwise, I remember the fear of asking what might have seemed a stupid question.

Another example applies.

One of my hobbies is target shooting, and I've taken several beginner and advanced training courses. There was an online discussion regarding a big name trainer, whose course I am taking next month. They were ranting about having "newbies" slow them down and impede their progress. I consider myself to be a newbie compared with many shooters. That prompted a call to the company hosting the trainer to see if I needed to withdraw from the course. He was furious at the self-proclaimed experts hiding behind their keyboards. As it turns out, my training resume is much longer than many of those chest-thumpers.

In my mind, there is nothing about the title of expert that conveys a right to be unkind. There will almost always be someone who has less experience, and almost always someone who has more. Bad experts bully, haze, and intimidate newbies. On at least an unconscious level, they may be unsure in their knowledge and/or afraid of losing their perceived expert status. It gives a certain kind of psychological gain maintaining the knowledge gap and reinforcing their own superiority. Good experts want to bring people up to their level. They know they will make mistakes, and share the lessons learned from those. Good experts know that teaching newer folks will also be a learning process for themselves.
 
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Personally I have learnt a ton of valuable tips from some SB members. As well, I have come to realize that there are a bunch of the "holier than thou" types with ego's far to developed for me who seem to think that it is only their opinion that matters.

When reading their posts you need to realize that for every one of them there are dozens more who do not roll like that.

The funny thing is that I have seen them post in this particular thread as of yet....go figure.
 
Hi all!

Newbie here, and I love this thread!

Dove a little informally with some Navy diver buddies when deployed... Gulf, Thailand, etc about 20 years ago, and I'm starting NAUI training tomorrow!

I'm not all newb... I've been flying for a while, and I'm an engineer, and I've been around the world... Everybody knows SOMETHING!

We've ALL got experience that matters, even if it's outside this arena.

The Blue Angels debrief with a long list of errors and things that need improvements after each flight. It's like they are in confession... Not picking on each other. But "confessing" their own shortcomings, and stating what they will do to improve.

This from some of the best pilots in the world.

I'm just beginning, and expect I will be "just beginning" in 20 years!

Cheers,

Ron
 
I have been diving since 81 but i will always think of my self as some one with something to learn or a "newbie".

Yes. I have gained a fair bit of experience since certified 7 years ago. I will probably always look at each dive (even "easy" ones) as something new and different (even if the same site). Things can go wrong. I feel the ocean (or lake, etc.) regards us all as newbies. To steal a past SB quote: "A successful diver is one who's number of ascents equals his number of descents".
 
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