Nitrox Tank Cleaning

[radinator]

That I didn't know. I assumed that since a membrane system just "removes" N2, and injects the final EANx mix directly into the cylinder, it wouldn't affect the clean-ness of the cylinder. Does a membrane system introduce flammable contaminants that would dirty the cylinder?

I believe this is the case, that the membrane system isn't required to be as clean (since it doesn't have PPO2 > 40% anywhere in the system), so it isn't. I did my nitrox class at HD, and I recall Hal mentioned in the class there that he makes sure to tell people who bring in O2 clean tanks for a EAN fill that it will mess up the "O2 clean" aspect of the tanks.

Likewise, as someone stated in another post, even if you want to put air into the tanks, you have to do it on an "O2 clean" filling system or hydrocarbins can get introduced.

 

[Whitelightnin]

The shop should have let you know when you brought the tanks in that you would need all the "extra" stuff like the stickers & such. It should not have been a surprise when you picked up your tanks. You should have had the option of saying "no thanks" & taking them elsewhere.

As far as the visual inspection, Contrary to what has been posted, the industry DOES NOT require an eddy current machine for "all aluminun cylinders". It is recomended ONLY for the older cylinders made out of the alloy that had trouble with sustained load cracking. If the tanks were new, all they HAD to do is take a peek inside before they started the O2 cleaning. Requiring a full visual inspection is something they decided based on ????? I think it has come back to bite them in the butt. It has cost them a customer in this case & based on how many people read these posts, it probally has cost them more in future business than they made from you.

You have every right to complain about the situation. Now, let's see if they want to make it right.

James

 

[grf88]

As far as the visual inspection, Contrary to what has been posted, the industry DOES NOT require an eddy current machine for "all aluminun cylinders". It is recomended ONLY for the older cylinders made out of the alloy that had trouble with sustained load cracking. James

I believe the Luxfer Web Site recommends against testing the newer tanks with Eddy Current Machines as it has resulted in too many false positives

 

[Charlie99]

The VIP+ is not just simply looking into your cylinders. Due to the fact they are aluminum, we are required by the industry to use an Eddy Current Machine to check for microscopic cracks in the necks of the cylinders. If they were steel, the VIP is $6 as the steel cylinders do not require this added computerized process. VIP+ is $15 per aluminum cylinder. .......

Scuba Schools of America's guideline for Enriched Air Cleaning are consistant with the Compressed Gas Association, The National Fire Prevention Association, NASA, NOAA and more importantly American Nitrox Divers International, (ANDI). To do things the right way costs more.

I'm a bit confused on the VIP+. Are you doing eddy current checks on both the old 6351 alloy as well as the newer tanks out of alloys like Luxfer's 6061?

If so, are you using one of the older eddy current machines, or one of the 2 (and only 2) machines that are approved by Luxfer for use on the newer alloys -- Visual Plus 3™ eddy-current inspection equipment manufactured by Advanced Inspection Technology, Inc. (AIT) (approved Oct 2004) and the Visual Eddy Mark V™ by Visual Eddy Products, Inc. (just approved last month).

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/news/releases/20050929.shtml

 

[dl348]

You were definitely overcharged. When I purchased two Worthington LP 95 tanks from scuba.com they came Nitrox Ready to 40% and had current VIP stickers on them. The valves were not installed. I went to my LDS which I had never done business with before and they installed the valves and gave me the air fills (Grade E oxygen compatible) for free!!! They honored the VIP that was performed earlier that week and since they use Continuous Flow for Nitrox, my tanks don't need to be 100% Oxygen Clean.

They also did the same thing for no charge with my wife's two LP 85s.

I don't plan on going to the other 2 dive shops (they use Partial Pressure Blending) in my area since this shop has totally taken care of me as a customer.

You may want to find a different LDS. Good Luck.

 

[JimC]

Vip, Tumble and O2 Cleanning - $50
20 - 32% Nitrox fills - $50

Having diveshops that listen to customers and give them what they want without hassles - Pricless.

 

[SCUBAMedicBill]

I think they saw you coming. Typically most tanks sold now are nitrox ready from the manufacturer. But, if you bring it to a shop other then where you bought it from, it's reasonable to say that it must be cleaned, since they really don't for sure (other than you saying it) that they are new. My shop will charge $50 for a nitrox cleaning, as long as the tank is not really dirty and a lot of work doesn't have to be put into it. This cleaning includes rebuilding the valve, cleaning the tank (which if its new, it just needs a rinsing with something like dish detergant or blue gold), stickers (Nitrox and VIP) and tags. The VIP is different in the fact that it just indicates the tank and valve are nitrox clean. Does not include a nitrox fill.

I would definetly re-think using them. $220.00 is not just unreasonable, it's highway robbery.

Good luck.

Bill

 

[Somethin-Fishey]

"Although there are several ways to blend nitrox, some of which do not require using pure oxygen, all will use extra-clean air that meets a standard of greatly reduced hydrocarbon content. So, preparing a cylinder and designating it as "for nitrox service" is valid, even for those blending methods that remove nitrogen rather than adding oxygen"

I would NOT count on this 100%. When you PP fill there is 100% O2 in the tank, so the air requirements must meet much stricter standards when introduced to the tank. Membrane and other pre blending techniques never have this happen and the air requirements are not nearly as stringent. I will NOT under ANY circumstances let my steel tanks be filled ANYWHERE that doesn't do PP filling, even if I just want air. One hint of moisture and $350 down the toilet.

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

Why > 40%? I thought if you went above 23.5% you need O2 clean tanks?

Thanks,

Stan

For membrane fills (or Pre-mix nitrox) the O2 clean standard is not enforced. You will see some O2 clean VIP stickers have 2 punches, one for handling O2 at 22-40% and one for handling O2 from 40-100%. Partial Pressure blending is the practice of adding 100% O2 to an empty (or about empty) tank and then topping off with O2 clean Air (OCA). Your tanks MUST be cleaned to handle the 100% O2 for this method of filling. The OCA is double filtered to ensure no contaminants enter the tank.

 

[scubafool]

$12 for a EANX bumper sticker & $6 for a contents sticker? If a shop allows themselves to be grossly overcharged in this manner, then passes this price along to the customer, the shop should expect bad press.