no safety stop after 53' dive

[Zen Diving Inc.]

There was more to it than that. But on of the errors the team committed was to do a safety stop when
one diver was critically low on gas. He wound up running out of gas before getting to the surface. Details available here:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/430827-fatality-off-point-lobos-california.html



I think you missed a few of the related replies prior to my post. In short:

- someone was talking about staying at the surface for 5-10 minutes after a dive. The idea being that avoiding strenuous activity immediately after a dive could further reduce the risk of DCS. Apparently, this is a practice that some cave divers observe.
- another person suggested that this could be viewed as some sort of best practice.
- I personally was commenting that while I do not see anything wrong with this practice, I find its benefits for recreational dives to be questionable at best. Further, this practice might be largely inconsequential in a spring but out in the ocean on a boat dive, things are a little bit different.

Now that I have clarified what I was referring to, if you have objections to what I have posted, please feel free to re-state.

Thx for the link! No objection to re-state since you made that clear. I didn't realize your were talking about the 2nd safety stop... LOL. I would have to be in complete agreement now that I know what your talking about. The exposure in this case would far out weigh the advantages in most cases especially in open water. Then again you may have to wait that long to get the boat to pick you up anyways lol.

 

[Blackmore75]

My instructors highly stressed the 3 min stop at 15' and when I become an instructor, I will do the same. Pretty sure they (PADI) have a good reason to keep pushing it, and not too many issues have ever come from doing it.
That being said, I know occasionally the unexpected surface will happen. I had it happen as I was learning, and we also had students that would not be paying attention and especially on their night dives would find themselves on the surface unexpectedly. It is going to happen, until you really gain some experience, and you always need to pay attention to your body as you dive. You will feel yourself descending, and also will feel yourself ascending. Learn to pay attention to what you feel.
I'm glad there were no residual effects, and am also glad to hear that you were willing to call a dive that you weren't comfortable. Always stay with your buddy, and be ready to assist in any situation. If you know you aren't comfortable with overheads, be sure you ask about them prior to the dive. Your DM should have briefed better on what you would encounter on the dive, and that's on him.
Don't let it affect your learning experience, and in fact use it as a learning tool as you advance. Best of luck to you!!

 

[Adobo]

My instructors highly stressed the 3 min stop at 15' and when I become an instructor, I will do the same. Pretty sure they (PADI) have a good reason to keep pushing it,

Did they say why they were highly stressing to do a 3 min stop at 15'? Did they present safety stops as "recommend but not mandatory" or "must do"?

Let me try and ask in a slightly different way. Would you still recommend safety stops under the following scenarios?

• One of the divers in the buddy team is very low on gas
• divers in the buddy team are separated from each other
• diving on a wreck or a reef where the boat is anchored and there is current. the buddy team is unable to find their way back to the anchor line.
• dive is to a location that maxes out at 30ft.
• multi level dive but the dive team has been at 20ft for >5 minutes

and not too many issues have ever come from doing it.

Recently, a dive team were in roughly 50ft of water when one diver noticed he was very low on gas. He signaled to his buddy that he needed to thumb the dive. The team went to 15ft and performed a safety stop. At some point, the diver who was low on gas ran out of gas. From there, the situation deteriorated ending with the out of gas diver losing his life.

From your perspective, do you think this dive team made the right choice of performing a safety stop? (Upfront, let me acknowledge that there were mistakes before and after the safety stop as well.)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

My instructors highly stressed the 3 min stop at 15' and when I become an instructor, I will do the same. Pretty sure they (PADI) have a good reason to keep pushing it, and not too many issues have ever come from doing it.

Hopefully, before you become an instructor you will make an effort to understand what those reasons are. "Because my instructor said so" isn't a valid reason.

Diving's very situational ... there are many times when the advantages of doing a safety stop are outweighed by the disadvantages. In order to recognize those, you need to understand why you would either choose to make one or skip it.

A related pet peeve of mine is people who are absolutely anal about doing their 3-minute safety stop then taking 5 seconds to surface once it's done. Do the math ... should take at least a half-minute ... and if you're truly concerned about bubbling, this is the most important half-minute of the entire ascent ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ahava]

Recently, a dive team were in roughly 50ft of water when one diver noticed he was very low on gas. He signaled to his buddy that he needed to thumb the dive. The team went to 15ft and performed a safety stop. At some point, the diver who was low on gas ran out of gas. From there, the situation deteriorated ending with the out of gas diver losing his life.

From your perspective, do you think this dive team made the right choice of performing a safety stop? (Upfront, let me acknowledge that there were mistakes before and after the safety stop as well.)

Apparently they did not. Not knowing the exact situation but as a dive team member you think they should be able to realize their gas supply was about expire and should have no problem surfacing from 15 feet even with no air.

 

[Adobo]

Apparently they did not. Not knowing the exact situation but as a dive team member you think they should be able to realize their gas supply was about expire and should have no problem surfacing from 15 feet even with no air.

The team made it to the surface sharing gas. Unfortunately, making it to the surface was insufficient to assure a good outcome.

The out of gas diver was unable to inflate his BCD sufficiently to keep him afloat. The buddy was unable to assist the out of gas diver to ditch weight. For some unknown reason, the out of gas diver lost consciousness and sank to the bottom. (Personally, I suspect that the victim was over weighted). The buddy seemingly did the best he could to try to rescue his buddy (donated gas, tried to assist in ditching weight, tried to keep the victim afloat after he lost consciousness) but was ultimately unsuccessful.

Of course, the victim did not die because the team did a safety stop. However, I feel that under these circumstances, it would have been far better to omit the safety stop and head to the surface in a safe and controlled way. There is no way to tell whether the victim would have survived the incident in that case but at the very least, he might have been more effective at keeping himself afloat once they reached the surface.

 

[boulderjohn]

The out of gas diver was unable to inflate his BCD sufficiently to keep him afloat. The buddy was unable to assist the out of gas diver to ditch weight. ... (Personally, I suspect that the victim was over weighted).

If a diver has a completely empty tank at the surface and cannot stay at the surface, then the diver is definitely over weighted, and that is something all basic divers reading this thread should consider. If you have a completely empty tank, it should be harder to get down than to stay up. Remember that in a weight check, you will float at eye level with no air in the BCD without kicking while holding a normal breath, and that is with some air in the tank.

 

[Thalassamania]

My instructors highly stressed the 3 min stop at 15' and when I become an instructor, I will do the same. Pretty sure they (PADI) have a good reason to keep pushing it, and not too many issues have ever come from doing it. That being said, I know occasionally the unexpected surface will happen. I had it happen as I was learning, and we also had students that would not be paying attention and especially on their night dives would find themselves on the surface unexpectedly. It is going to happen, until you really gain some experience, and you always need to pay attention to your body as you dive. You will feel yourself descending, and also will feel yourself ascending. Learn to pay attention to what you feel. I'm glad there were no residual effects, and am also glad to hear that you were willing to call a dive that you weren't comfortable. Always stay with your buddy, and be ready to assist in any situation. If you know you aren't comfortable with overheads, be sure you ask about them prior to the dive. Your DM should have briefed better on what you would encounter on the dive, and that's on him. Don't let it affect your learning experience, and in fact use it as a learning tool as you advance. Best of luck to you!!

Your instructor's knowledge of decompression appears, as you represent it, to be lacking. I sincerely hope that if and when you become an instructor your decompression background is stronger and you are able to knowledgeably critique PADI (or anyone else's) rationales, policies and requirements. Might I start by suggesting that buoyancy control that is so poor as to result in unexpected surfacing is entirely unacceptable and is not simply, "going to happen, until you really gain some experience."

 

[danvolker]

From your perspective, do you think this dive team made the right choice of performing a safety stop? (Upfront, let me acknowledge that there were mistakes before and after the safety stop as well.)

The "Safety Stop" was stupid. Breathing is far more important than a safety stop....Even if it had been a mandatory DECO stop, which it was NOT, it should have been omitted.

 

[NAM001]

To some degree this all comes back to old topics of what is a ow vs aow vs tech. The limitations (60' ect) put on ow's are geared to allow for the survival of the diver with the most unexpected set of circumstances and panic thrown on the diver. cesa is an example of the last resort available options for an ow. That alone should suggest that the safety stop is just that, a safety ,and not a manditory. Although i am far beyond the ow level of training i still do the safety stop, not because someone says to do so , but to take the , time permitted, luxury of an extra bit of protection in the event i have not accounted for something. It is just a good practice to do. Safety stops are supportive (not required) of continued life. Not something done at the expence of ones life.