Oak Bay Roatan no longer accepting SSI cards?

[JoeFL]

Genesis once bubbled...
Funny how that works.

BTW, on Rodales there's a bunch of threads now running that are started by someone who claims to be "Gary" of Oak Bay. Who knows which one(s), if any, are authentic - but the attitude expressed in them appears to be identical to that of those who have managed to get a reply here....

It seems that the appropriate response to this is to see what we all, as divers, can do to make sure that Oak Bay is a very nice, quiet resort - quiet because it has no clientele!

You can tell which ones are authentic because of his email address in the actual post... most are legit.

I think "Gary" is flat out wrong denying innocent SSI divers when his gripe is with SSI, not the divers. He even admits that SSI offers quality training and there is nothing wrong with the certifications. This is just paraphrased from some of his Rodales posts, so don't just take my word for it, but his problem with SSI seems to be that he had to fire an SSI instructor working for him for drinking on the job (actually showing up for dives intoxicated). There must have been some sort of SSI investigation and SSI backed the instructor and refused to accept his story that the instructor was drinking... or something like that. That is what started the problem. Anyway, go read his posts for yourselves.

Either way... Im NAUI certified, but if I go to Roatan I will not be diving with Oak Bay as long as they deny service to legitimate divers who have nothing to do with SSI politics.

 

[Windwalker]

As with a gun dealer refusing to sell a firearm to someone they do not feel right about, a Dive master or resort should be able to say no to any diver they do not feel is up to a safe level of diving regardless of certification agency or level of training. However denying a diver simply because of their C-Card Agency is completely Bogus. I will not ever go there.

Not to mention that they won't take me because I am SSI certed.

Thanks for the Heads up guys.

 

[scubajoe]

Something wrong here, I'm agreeing with Genesis again. Twice in less then a week. SSI may be this week, who's next? I checked the Oak Bay site, http://www.roatandiving.com . Not only does it say nothing about not accepting SSI cards, it says and I quote "padi, ssi, naui, ymca".

Are those the ones he takes or are they the ones he doesn't?

Dive on,

Joe

 

[Lead_carrier]

I got an email from Gary at Oak Bay. This is his email about why he will not accept SSI.

A complaint was filed against me to SSI from a Naui instructor i fired.
This 20 year old girl said she was a instructor when she was not.
She had completed a Naui instructor course but that does not make you a instructor.
She had failed to tell me all this and as a result i would not let her teach as i knew Naui would not issue cards.
Naui could not verify that she was a instructor and never heard of her.
A few weeks later Naui processed her paper work and she was allowed to teach.
During this time she had yelled at guests (documented)
Yelled at me (documented)
Showed up for work with only 2 hours of rest (documented)
Showed up for work under the influence. (documented)
She had taken my guests out to other bars and resorts. This is againt company policy which she knew of. (documented in her complaint)
She have told lies to SSI to get even with me for fireing her .
She had been involved with a local married man. She was told this man was married and continued to see him. This man's own wife cut his throut with a knife. His own wive burned down their own house.. I did not need this women coming over to my resort and and causing problems because my employee was to stupid to stop seeing him. I told my employee this man was not allowed on my property, yet she still broght him on my property against my wishes. (document by 2 people)

Some of the lies she told.

She said i threw rocks at her.. Can you belive that??
She said we would not feed her. Since she kept leaving right after diving, we no longer worred about feeding her because she was always gone. (documented by witness employee)
She said she did not like nudity that we sometimes had here. (documented by her application that "she had no problems with nudity")
She said i said she had a cute butt. Fact, I have never sceen her butt and if she was ever out in the sun in the nude i did not notice.
She had said i had gone in her room several times. While this is a lie, it is my resort and i went in once while she was here as the water heater for the fourplex was in her room and needed lighting. She was presant when i did this.
She was upset that she had to pay for her own long distance calls which had been told to her up front..
She was upset that she had to pay for the freight expense on this end for packages she had sent to her. All told up front.
Said i left to phone off the hook so her calls would not come through..


She acted like a child of 10 who was 20 years old.. Raised her voice all the time and never took any guidence from anyone older than she was..
I was told by a guest that she admited to being fired from toy's r us for yelling at her manager. Part of why she also got fired here.
She did not know the proper way to file for certification cards with Naui. Had many problems with Naui getting cards as she did not know what she was doing.
She told me she quit her instructor's course at Hall's in Florida because she could not get along with her instructor trainer. She later went back and finished with another IT.

According to SSI, there have been other complaints from employees who worked here. Yet i have never been told of these or have sceen any of them..
According to SSI policy, a certifed leter is to be sent to the dealer or instructor advising them of this and they are allowed 30 days after receipt of this letter to respond. I will include a copy of SSI rules for this for posting. I was never given any of this..

I was undully tried ands convicted by SSI without ever being given a chance to respond.. SSI broke ther own rules on this.. And SSI HQ in Colo. does not want to get involved in what one of there Regions does.. (see document from SSI president)

The bottom line here is SSI came to belive that rather then revolk my instructor authorization, it would be easier to revolk my dealership. since a SSI instructor can only teach for a SSI dealer and i'm not one now, I can not teach SSI courses..

I had sent a email to both SSI Latin America and SSI HQ in Colo. saying that if this was not resolved I would make public notice that "If I'm not good enough for SSI, then SSI is not good enough for me". (have done what i said by posting all of this") (I'm sure this has been a real headack for SSI and they wish that they had resolved it. Too late now.) I'm sure many instructors are using this as a selling point to not do SSI as some places will not honor a SSI card. What damage has been done to SSI i do not care about. What damage this may have caused my business i can live with. This whole thing has been a mater of principle... I will not let someone treat me unfair and not put up a good fight.

Gary Kimball, Oak Bay Resort, Roatan Island.

 

[Soggy]

I don't understand how or why a NAUI instructor filed a complaint with SSI or what he thinks he is accomplishing by punishing SSI certified divers.

 

[cat]

And I don't have a problem with his not taking SSI certifications - his sandbox, his rules and there are other resorts in Roatan. If he wants to anger divers and see his business go down the tubes, that's up to him (and his creditors, if any).
What I DO have a problem with is his not putting that information up front on the web page (and in all other advertising he sends out). The ban is not mentioned anywhere on the site. What IS on the site is the keyword SSI (appears twice in a long list of keywords, along with some, but not all, other agencies). So - deliberately trying to attract SSI divers and then not letting them play whe they get there? That's more than unfair - it's deceptive as hell. Would be the same if it was PADI, NAUI or YMCA that was banned - they're all keyworded too. (Odd that the other agencies aren't...)
The ad at http://www.caribbeantrip.com/nhotels/oakbayresort/description.shtml still lists them as offering SSI courses!

Say I book a vacation and didn't know about this. I get there and I'm forced to take OW again? What if there isn't a course scheduled at the right time? Even if I could then get my course money back from Visa by alleging deceptive practices - who gives me back the precious vacation time I'd waste redoing OW there or by having to wait until the course was running?

So anyone else out there thinking they'd better get their certification approved in writing when they book a resort vacation from now on?
Edited to add - just checked D2D -the cat that is posting over there is *not* me

 

[Boogie711]

I actually emailed Gary and asked him those questions. (I was in a pissy mood I guess - what do I care, I'm not SSI certified. )

Anyway, he says he always informs prospective guests of the conditions before hand. I still think its BS though.

 

[divestud]

all that mess involve me?

It should be between the instructor, owner and the agency. It sounds like a lot of backwoods redneck politics to me. For example, I know a family that will not buy Heinz products because they had a farm next to some people that farmed for Heinz and they had a dispute about a knocked down fence, 30 years ago. And everyone in that family still refuses to by anything from Heinz.

Small minded and unprofessional, if you ask me, to drag everyone else down into the mud.

A good fight is to pursue legal action and not mudslinging, and ranting and raving like the drunk guy on the corner.

How does that quote go? The best revenge against someone is to live a prosperous and happy life.

 

[Genesis]

What is clear is that this is a pissing contest between SSI/LA and him.

What is not clear is exactly why there is a pissing contest.

I am willing to bet, however, that it is not over a simple matter of an instructor who was or was not going out at night and drinking with guests (married or not.)

Its clear that this resort has some element of nudity involved in its operations from the documents involved.

There MAY be some issue there within SSI and them making a determination that this kind of thing does not comport with their corporate "vision", but that's ALL supposition.

In fact, the entire basis of the hue and cry between SSI/LA and Gary is all supposition - none of what he sent to me indicates WHAT the problem really is, or WHY SSI/LA dumped him. That he was apparently dumped appears clear, and that he feels he was wronged in doing so also appears to be clear.

However, what's not clear is the reason for the boot to the curb - in fact, not even Gary has explained his side of that!

Anyway, the bottom line is that Gary is taking his anger at a company out on that company's CUSTOMERS.

To take his anger out on their SUPPLIERS might be acceptable, or even their INSTRUCTORS and AFFILIATES.

But their CUSTOMERS? That's a stretch of the highest order and after reviewing what I've seen I can find no justification for that action.

 

[learn-scuba]

The last thing I want to do is to get into the middle of this. But what the hey...

I've just recently returned (the 5th of August) from nine nights spent at Gary's Oak Bay resort and I'm an SSI Advanced Open Water Instructor. I kind of arrived at the resort in the middle of the battle between gary and SSI/LA. Admittedly, I only have Gary's side of the story and, frankly, I tend to agree with the majority on this board that Gary is making a huge mistake in the way he is handling this matter.

In any case... I've gotten an earful of this during the time I was there and if there's some truth in what he's saying, then I can understand his frustration. The question is, how does he resolve the conflict? While I suspect the course he has chosen was the least wise, I can see why he chose it. He's trying to make a stink to draw attention to the problem within SSI itself and with all the people contacting SSI as a result, I would venture to say he's accomplishing his goal.

So... let me close with this... Gary treated my Son and I like gold while we were there. While the resort is rustic, the customer care was first class... the food was good and the diving was world class. His staff (Cheryl and Lindsey) took grand care of us and I have not a single complaint to lodge about the trip aside from the fact that I was sorely disappointed to see him in a tiff with SSI and disappointed with the path he chose to take.

Just my own 02