Octo keeper pulls mouthpiece off?

[tursiops]

How did you find and choose the shop and instructors?

 

[TSandM]

This is one of the problems with the whole concept of the octopus regulator as it is taught. You need something that will retain the second stage securely, so that in diving and moving around and changing positions, it will not come loose and drag behind you or get caught in something. But at the same time, it has to release the regulator instantly and with minimal effort, because when that reg is needed, it's often needed desperately.

I have probably tried a half dozen different types of octo holders, from the simple one you show to much more complicated models that insert into the mouthpiece, to magnets. Nothing has performed well enough to suit me, which is part of the reason I like the long hose/bungled backup system so much.

 

[stuartv]

How did you find and choose the shop and instructors?

Google Maps search for dive shops near me. There were only a couple. This one was the least expensive (which meant I could afford it). I called a couple of times and talked to 2 different guys about their classes and I liked the guys I talked to. I went to the shop and met them in person, including the owner. It's a big shop, with tons of inventory and a decent online store and pretty decent prices. They have a pretty big and well setup (seemingly) dedicated classroom. No pool of their own, though. And it's family owned and run.

I didn't actually even really check out the other nearby shop or two. This one seemed pretty perfect.

 

[redacted]

Many shops do not provide such valuable opportunities to learn about equipment failures during OW training.

 

[Colliam7]

The equipment was a total potpourri. It's hard for one of my limited experience to say definitively, but it seems like the instruction has been consistent with the gear. :-/

LOL, what a great description!

It is possible for a zip-tie to break / come off. It happens. You can inspect your regulator before a dive, pressurize it, test breath from both second stages, and still have a zip-tie break during the subsequent dive. Rare, but not impossible. The plastic gets a bit brittle with age. Zip-ties (most) are susceptible to negative effects of UV light I don't know if chlorine contributes to failure (it certainly takes its toll on most pool gear, but that could be a factor. In fairness, sometimes the installation is imperfect, and the zip-tie is not sufficiently tightened, particularly if done by hand without a zip-tie 'gun' or a pair of pliers. I wouldn't necessarily assign it to poor maintenance, although that is a possibility. If regs are serviced annually, the zip-ties should be replaced annually, when the second stage is disassembled.

I had it happen to a student in one OW class a number of years ago. We were in shallow water, I was watching him breath u/w and all of a sudden I noticed that his second stage drifted away from his mouth, while the mouthpiece stayed in his mouth. He realized it too and stood up. If we had been in deeper water, I would have handed him my primary or his alternate. With experience, you realize you can still breath from the second stage without a mouthpiece, just get a good lip-lock on the (hard plastic) oval orifice.

I also had a zip-tie fail on a LP inflator hose once - the zip-tie securing the inflator to the corrugated hose, which produced some comical moments. I actually considered that more serious (I was diving double steels) than having the zip-tie on a mouthpiece fail.

 

[diver 85]

Try a (properly fitted/sized)necklace.........homemade is the best(& cheapest)...............https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIFyUJo98E4

 

[Tbar]

It is possible for a zip-tie to break / come off. It happens.

The plastic gets a bit brittle with age.

Should be replaced before failure - poor maintenance

Zip-ties (most) are susceptible to negative effects of UV light.

Should be replaced before failure - poor maintenance

I don't know if chlorine contributes to failure.

Should be replaced before failure - poor maintenance

sometimes the installation is imperfect, and the zip-tie is not sufficiently tightened

– poor maintenance
All the issues listed are a result of poor maintenance either work not undertaken well or at to long a frequency between maintenance or use of inappropriate parts. We use cable ties on boats and they last many years in the sun and salt.

If regs are serviced annually, the zip-ties should be replaced annually, when the second stage is disassembled.

Agreed. Or the use of re-usable clips as provided by some manufacturers, stronger and make a more positive clamp.
It does raise a question as to the overall service state of the equipment. I would not want to put all my training into effect on the first open water dive!!!

I also had a zip-tie fail on a LP inflator hose once - the zip-tie securing the inflator to the corrugated hose

Use of two zip-ties is good practice.

 

[tursiops]

Google Maps search for dive shops near me. There were only a couple. This one was the least expensive (which meant I could afford it). I called a couple of times and talked to 2 different guys about their classes and I liked the guys I talked to. I went to the shop and met them in person, including the owner. It's a big shop, with tons of inventory and a decent online store and pretty decent prices. They have a pretty big and well setup (seemingly) dedicated classroom. No pool of their own, though. And it's family owned and run.

I didn't actually even really check out the other nearby shop or two. This one seemed pretty perfect.

So, how did going with the lowest price work out for you?

 

[Tbar]

So, how did going with the lowest price work out for you?

I am not sure that is entirely fair.

I called a couple of times and talked to 2 different guys about their classes and I liked the guys I talked to. I went to the shop and met them in person, including the owner.

This is a lot more checking than many would be divers do.

 

[tursiops]

I am not sure that is entirely fair.


This is a lot more checking than many would be divers do.

He picked a shop by the lowest price, talked to the people, and liked them. Good. But he had no knowledge of diving, of scuba instruction, of the equipment, of what he ought to ask and find out, etc. For someone who questions everything, it makes me wonder. He did not know what he did not know. He still doesn't. This is the problem with folks who think they can work it all out for themselves because they are smart and they know how to ask questions. He did not know enough to ask the right questions, and that continued through the pool and OW dives, too. He accepted what he was handed at face value and complained afterwards. I'll bet he wishes he'd known more about defogger, about how a BC ought to work, about a lot of things. Right now he has zero experience other than two pool sessions and 4 cert dives in a quarry, apparently with a bunch of different instructors. And he is making assumptions about how comfortable a necklaced alternate is? And getting advice to pursue DIR?

Jeez, what he needs is a mentor and a lot more experience. And he needs to at least comparison-shop before choosing a dive shop. I did a Goggle search for dive shops in his area and came up with a lot more than 2. Looks to me like he chose the closest and cheapest. I'll bet if he had asked on SB for some suggestions in his area he might have found it informative. But he chose to think it all through by himself...and I'm wondering how that worked out for him. Not well, it seems.