Octo vs no octo

[rstofer]

Another thought: you need to remember that YOU will be using the octopus once you get out of class and go with the necklace approach (and you probably will). There are a number of people that suggest an out-of-air diver is going to yank your primary rather than go for an octo that may, or may not, actually work. They KNOW the primary is working.

So, if you are going to be breathing from the octo in an out-of-air emergency, it might not be prudent to buy the cheapest piece of crap you can get.

The octo doesn't have to be as top-of-the-line as the primary and, in fact, may not have all the neat adjustment knobs and glitter, but it should still be a good regulator. You're the one that will be using it!

The necklace or any other decent octo holder will keep the regulator out of the sand. That is never a problem. What is more important is to have a barrel snap on the primary so you can clip it off to your upper right D ring whenever you take it out of your mouth - like when you transition to a snorkel. The primary is far more likely to drag in the sand than the octo around your neck!

As to the AIR II devices: as I said earlier, I have had one for a very long time. It is said by some, notably those that have never used one, that they don't breathe very well. Perhaps... But at 113 fsw, it worked as well as my Oceanic Omega II primary - not by any means a great breathing regulator. Both were good enough for me!

The complication with the AIR II isn't whether you can breathe from it. How good does it need to be to get you to the surface? The problem is whether you can control your buoyancy (BC inflation/deflation) while breathing from the same device while controlling the ascent of an unresponsive buddy who is probably using your primary. Don't forget, you have to control their buoyancy as well!

All of this button pushing on the AIR II is thought to complicate the ascent. I guess I have accepted this philosophy because I went with a conventional octo/necklace when I upgraded to a BP/W.

The AIR II concept works fine in warm water with no wetsuits and minimal ballast. It is less suitable in cold water and 7 mm wetsuits.

If you want to see this stuff done properly, buy: Amazon.com: Unified Team Diving (5thD-X) Essentials of Recreational Diving DVD: Movies & TV I would still rather see a snorkel but these guys are awesome.

Richard

 

[spoolin01]

You've done some 200 dives and NEVER done any air sharing drills? ... Why wouldn't you want to practice the basic skills with the people with whom you normally dive?

It's just never occured to me that it requires additional practice - as skills go the technique is about as easy as they come and the entire procedure is just a small variation on common scuba experience - and my handful of fellow divers have never asked about it. LOL it's not that we're clueless or unprepared, we do dive/boat/safety gear checks and SOP reviews.

 

[imasinker]

This is the second thread this guys started that ended in a debate....seems they all do...LOL

 

[offthewall1]

A fellow member told me not to get a octo. He said they were designed 40 years ago and the regulators today are just to unlikely to fail to carry one. He also said due to the improvements of the gear today the only real reason to loose air is human failure. SO he said there not worth carrying because of the add drag weight need to sink and that normaly there not taken care of and are usasly the first thing to get dragged through sand if the reg gets sand in it. he said he uses a pony bottle if he is diving deeper then 30 feet. but he sais for a new dive they should wait because a pony is unneed down to 30 feet.
do you use one

Some sort of alternate breathing device / air source is recommended

Many people use either an "octopus" or back up regulator... while many others have opted for a breathable inflator such as the Dive Rite Rite Source, Scubapro Air 2 etc...

More advanced divers tend to prefer a completely redundant air supply such as a Spare Air, pony bottle or some sort of double cylinder configuration.

Most places you go will require you to have a secondary breathing device, so I advise having your own instead of being forced into a rental. Which one you choose is entirely up to you.

Spare Air's are easy and convenient for traveling and for use in shallow to intermediate level diving. If you're diving deeper than 60ft, I'd recommend a pony bottle...

At a bare minimum an octo or breathable inflator are recommended in case of primary failure.

 

[ianw2]

What about carrying a pony in place of an octo.

I second much of the advice already given. As far as the ÅÆither/or? why not both©Æventually. I often dive solo and carry both. But, then, IÃÎ a belt AND suspenders kind of guy.


When I first started diving in the early ?0ÃÔ, octos werenÃÕ in wide use (if at all). We learned sharing air techniques.

During DM training, the switching gear skills while using only one source of air taught me that I really donÃÕ want to give up my air source and share one reg under any but the most dire of situations. Those 30 seconds spent waiting to get that reg back are some of the longest IÃ×e ever been through.

I would discourage the use of a pony in the beginning of your diving too. I dive with a pony and, in the big picture, they are fairly straight forward to use but they do present significant task loading to a new diver.

I agree. The pony does add to task loading, even if only a small amount. Once youÃÓe comfortable in the water and, with enough experience, begin solo diving, the pony becomes a critical piece of personal redundant gas supply, in my opinion. It doesnÃÕ mean you have to or need to divest your rig of the ÅÐcto?

Get an octo clip or holder and keep the octo out of the sand. ItÃÔ not hard, really. It doesn't have to drag in the sand.

It's just never occurred to me that it requires additional practice - as skills go the technique is about as easy as they come©¼/quote]

Too true!

On a dive in 30FSW, my wifeÃÔ reg started breathing ÅÇunny? She signaled a problem and switched to her octo. Mine was in my right hand and my left hand was hooked into her BC strap in seconds after her signal. Everything was fine, but she sure felt a lot better having her octo AND mine as a secondary gas supply.

Like Spoolin01, for a long time I didnÃÕ think to do much ÅÑractice of such simple techniques underwater. Then, on one dive, after one of my dive partners had done some basic cave training, he pulled an OOA on me and spit out his reg. I was locked into his harness and had my reg in his mouth immediately. I locked eyes on his and started up. He tried to keep us on the bottom, only about 40FSW, but I insisted on surfacing. He signalled a problem, we we're sharing air, that dive was OVER!

As we broke the surface, he was laughing!

He explained that it was just a drill. He always figured IÃÅ take control, act and not panic in a real OOA situation. Now he knew. That stuck me as a hell of a compliment!

After a few OOA ÅÅrills with him and my other dive partners, I know I have safe, competent, solid back-ups in my dive partners, too! Drills donÃÕ just review skills; they instill confidence in your partners, too!

 

[diver 85]

Get one---sooner or later you or your buddy will be pleasantly pleased.......

 

[don Francisco]

When considering how to configure in order to anticipate problems always consider both the likelihood of a failure, and the consequences.

Even if a failure is extremely unlikely, if the consequences are severe you want to be prepared.

Imagine you're walking along a narrow ledge 2 feet off the ground. No problem, you're not likely to lose your balance, and even if you did, no big deal. Now ask yourself, would you walk along that same ledge 10 stories up?

That's the kind of analysis you have to make whenever considering redundancy.

 

[ScubaSteve]

A fellow member told me not to get a octo. He said they were designed 40 years ago and the regulators today are just to unlikely to fail to carry one. He also said due to the improvements of the gear today the only real reason to loose air is human failure. SO he said there not worth carrying because of the add drag weight need to sink and that normaly there not taken care of and are usasly the first thing to get dragged through sand if the reg gets sand in it. he said he uses a pony bottle if he is diving deeper then 30 feet. but he sais for a new dive they should wait because a pony is unneed down to 30 feet.
do you use one

??? Not much nice can be said here. Please pay attention to the advice given here.

 

[ligersandtions]

This is the second thread this guys started that ended in a debate....seems they all do...LOL

Heh, you noticed that too??


To the OP, you really should get an OW book (PADI or otherwise, they'll all have the same general info) and read it so you don't have to ask questions that have been thoroughly covered. I know that you're not planning on taking the class for a while, but it will be beneficial to have already read the information you need....and if there's something you don't understand or question why it's done a certain way, then by all means, ask....

 

[Tortuga68]

He somehow sipped the bottom of his tank all the way up without taking mine

The air in your tank will expand as you surface, which may allow another breath or two from an 'empty' tank on the ascent; a good reason not to keep your reg in your mouth if there is no alternate available