MARINABROKER
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Well Happy Birthday from this corner!:Birthday: Relax, chill, enjoy it! Don't get gray hairs over any of it (board stuff)
OK, Let's Be Honest Guys......................
- Thread starter Iguana Don
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The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
come across as mean spirited, I humbly apologise. Scoring points, hurting anyone's feelings, or starting a personal vendetta were not the motivating forces behind them.
You publicly stated something which I felt was inconsistent with some of your earlier posts. In order to get your attention I was purposefully blunt. It was not intended to be ugly or mean... it was intended to be thought provoking. A thorough evaluation of our actions is never inappropriate.
Moreover, I have not called you any names. I have simply asked some very pointed questions. You can respond publicly, privately, or not at all, as you see fit. You owe me nothing... but may I suggest that you owe yourself an honest evaluation of what I asked you?
You publicly stated something which I felt was inconsistent with some of your earlier posts. In order to get your attention I was purposefully blunt. It was not intended to be ugly or mean... it was intended to be thought provoking. A thorough evaluation of our actions is never inappropriate.
Moreover, I have not called you any names. I have simply asked some very pointed questions. You can respond publicly, privately, or not at all, as you see fit. You owe me nothing... but may I suggest that you owe yourself an honest evaluation of what I asked you?
King_Neptune
Founder
Well I figured this was just to close to quickly becoming the ugly monster that I have worked hard to prevent so before it goes any further let me clear up some issues.
Some of you will understand and agree with me and we have even had a few that didn't at first but have seen the error in their ways and have since repented, lol. There may be a few that don't agree with me but that's ok too, as you can't be perfect all the time and sooner or later you'll see the light as well.
I took a lot of heat during the first opening of this section of the forums and every now and again I catch some more for the "allowing men to post and participate" in the "Women's Section". But give me just a minute and I will share with you all a piece of how my gears spin upstairs as I often seem to confuse people with my position. There is actually an important reason I will be mentioning the following so here it goes ...
I'll first start off by saying I am not, in any way shape or form, supportive or sensitive of the "Women's Libbers" movements out there. They have done more to make me try to hate women than they'll ever know. My wife and I are not equal, as she is not equal to me, she is different (whew, and thank God for that eh? hehe). Additionally I think it does a great disservice to all women when those loud mouth bull dogs open their trap and start huffing and puffing. And lastly, my mother was no less of a woman because she wanted and chose to "stay home and raise her children" instead of shipping them off to the "sitters" for no other reason other than just so that she could assert her right to be a "Career Business Woman". As a matter of fact, I think she was all the more a "Real Woman" for having the control she did and for her ability to maintain the order she had. As us children grew older she went even further and opened and ran her own business from home and at times brought in more money than my step father did as a successful owner of an electrical contracting company. No matter how inferior those "Libbers" ever say I am saying they are just because I open the door for them, I will never stop opening the door for them!!! One last mention before I get off the top step of the soap box ... My outward display of such mannerisms is not reserved for just women. First and foremost I would say its towards my elders, and extends right on down to just "the other guy". All people have the right to do as best fits them, no one is better than anyone else, period.
Now, why did I feel that I needed to mention all that? Well, this is an industry that has participants from both genders yet has little to offer as far as variations or attention to details that would cater to the differences between those genders. I feel that such a forum, as this one where women can discuss those concerns, should remain open to all participants of diving to further promote advancements and attention to those details as needed. There is a lack of attention to the details within this industry and that doesn't just impair those female divers but also their male diving partners. It also slows the growth and profitability of those working within the diving industry. It still blows me away that they cannot see this. Instead there are those out there that want to do things like lowering the age limit to scary and questionable levels, what's next - DIAPER DIVERS?!?!
The last thing this industry needs is MORE elitism. Maybe, just maybe, if people would shut their chatter traps long enough to take a full breath thus ceasing all their whining and complaining and instead offer solutions as opposed to only complaints, you would be amazed at the changes that would result. In other words, be a part of the solution, not the problem.
In response to anyone that says this section belongs to the women and all the others belong to the men only, I have some rather eye opening and startling news for them... They all belong to me and I alone have the final decision on who can participate and who can't! The law I have laid down dictates that all sections are open to all members that have an honest interest and would like to be involved in the learning and sharing of information. The motivations fueling such goals is to further promote the safety and knowledge of all divers and to allow diving to continue to advance in a truly unbiased manner.
There will always be those that resemble a scene from Beavis and Butthead where when certain trigger words are mentioned they are going to wet their pants and uncontrollably continue to "huh huh huh they said 'boobies' huh huh huh" and if the responses were closer to "Yeah, and your point is?" as opposed to "OH MY LORDIE AHHHHHH MY VIRGIN EYES ARE BURNING", then I think you would find a lot less of it happening.
Want an example? Ok ...
And the reply ...
Well, too late for that wasn't it ... And then the post goes on to go even more overboard, the title maybe should have read, "Overreaction Eminent - Brace for Impact". There is no reason for ever making things a personal attack, if anyone feels that there is a reason, take it into private. We have always allowed people ridding "the line", and the reason we all watch those closely is because there is always someone that takes that as a chance to see if they can dart over it quickly without getting caught, and to the best of our ability we edit those and ALWAYS send that member a msg stating the what and why. But in this case even worse damage was done by someone running with it to the opposite extreme.
Ok, I hate that this might sound too much like I might be giving a lesson in English but if you want to mention "outrageous" and "disgusting" lets point the finger in the right direction shall we? Where do you get off accusing every one of the moderators, and thus LD and myself, of allowing such double standard perversion? To say, sarcastically or not, to "keep perpetuating the double standard" means to "Continue what already is". Please, show me ONE, just ONE place where it has happened even ONCE. You can't can you? No you can't! So don't come into my house talking about the crappy job the maid does dusting when your tracking filth everywhere with your muddy shoes.
As for the quote above ...
That quote would almost be taken on its own merit if the author wasn't the one that has gotten more personal than any other member on these forums. Im not going to get in a pissing match with anyone here. And I am not saying that for some honorable reason like, "I am above that"... Nope, I will be honest about it, it's because I DONT HAVE TO. And I shouldn't have to, there is too much of the pot calling the kettle black here and too many wanna be optomitrist trying to remove splints from their fellow members eyes while sportin beams in their own.
Riding the line and innuendos have never been a problem, and if anyone over-moderates, it would have to be my own moderation against myself! Spending any ammount of time with the groups I was with and doing the sorta things I have done within the military I have to watch myself and ask myself if my own words are really suitable.
One last thing I am going to say, between LD and myself, we have recieved no less than a dozen and a 1/2 msg's or emails, FROM WOMEN stating something to the effect that they absolutely LOVED the fact we had a womens section that all could see. The other point they all made I think was said best by one of the women that I feel couldn't be said any better than how she said it so I will quote her... "I'm sure you can't do this but I wish there was a forum called, 'All women have boobs and some are bigger than others', and just maybe if enough men got involved in those subjects then they would start making wetsuits that fit our boobs better! Maybe if our boobs were the topic of subject more, they would make sure to accomodate these things they love so much." Well, I don't think I am gonna argue with that...
To anyone that wants to jump up on the soap box ... Think before you speak, look before you leap and always look both ways before crossing the street!
=-)
Some of you will understand and agree with me and we have even had a few that didn't at first but have seen the error in their ways and have since repented, lol. There may be a few that don't agree with me but that's ok too, as you can't be perfect all the time and sooner or later you'll see the light as well.
I took a lot of heat during the first opening of this section of the forums and every now and again I catch some more for the "allowing men to post and participate" in the "Women's Section". But give me just a minute and I will share with you all a piece of how my gears spin upstairs as I often seem to confuse people with my position. There is actually an important reason I will be mentioning the following so here it goes ...
I'll first start off by saying I am not, in any way shape or form, supportive or sensitive of the "Women's Libbers" movements out there. They have done more to make me try to hate women than they'll ever know. My wife and I are not equal, as she is not equal to me, she is different (whew, and thank God for that eh? hehe). Additionally I think it does a great disservice to all women when those loud mouth bull dogs open their trap and start huffing and puffing. And lastly, my mother was no less of a woman because she wanted and chose to "stay home and raise her children" instead of shipping them off to the "sitters" for no other reason other than just so that she could assert her right to be a "Career Business Woman". As a matter of fact, I think she was all the more a "Real Woman" for having the control she did and for her ability to maintain the order she had. As us children grew older she went even further and opened and ran her own business from home and at times brought in more money than my step father did as a successful owner of an electrical contracting company. No matter how inferior those "Libbers" ever say I am saying they are just because I open the door for them, I will never stop opening the door for them!!! One last mention before I get off the top step of the soap box ... My outward display of such mannerisms is not reserved for just women. First and foremost I would say its towards my elders, and extends right on down to just "the other guy". All people have the right to do as best fits them, no one is better than anyone else, period.
Now, why did I feel that I needed to mention all that? Well, this is an industry that has participants from both genders yet has little to offer as far as variations or attention to details that would cater to the differences between those genders. I feel that such a forum, as this one where women can discuss those concerns, should remain open to all participants of diving to further promote advancements and attention to those details as needed. There is a lack of attention to the details within this industry and that doesn't just impair those female divers but also their male diving partners. It also slows the growth and profitability of those working within the diving industry. It still blows me away that they cannot see this. Instead there are those out there that want to do things like lowering the age limit to scary and questionable levels, what's next - DIAPER DIVERS?!?!
The last thing this industry needs is MORE elitism. Maybe, just maybe, if people would shut their chatter traps long enough to take a full breath thus ceasing all their whining and complaining and instead offer solutions as opposed to only complaints, you would be amazed at the changes that would result. In other words, be a part of the solution, not the problem.
In response to anyone that says this section belongs to the women and all the others belong to the men only, I have some rather eye opening and startling news for them... They all belong to me and I alone have the final decision on who can participate and who can't! The law I have laid down dictates that all sections are open to all members that have an honest interest and would like to be involved in the learning and sharing of information. The motivations fueling such goals is to further promote the safety and knowledge of all divers and to allow diving to continue to advance in a truly unbiased manner.
There will always be those that resemble a scene from Beavis and Butthead where when certain trigger words are mentioned they are going to wet their pants and uncontrollably continue to "huh huh huh they said 'boobies' huh huh huh" and if the responses were closer to "Yeah, and your point is?" as opposed to "OH MY LORDIE AHHHHHH MY VIRGIN EYES ARE BURNING", then I think you would find a lot less of it happening.
Want an example? Ok ...
And the reply ...
Well, too late for that wasn't it ... And then the post goes on to go even more overboard, the title maybe should have read, "Overreaction Eminent - Brace for Impact". There is no reason for ever making things a personal attack, if anyone feels that there is a reason, take it into private. We have always allowed people ridding "the line", and the reason we all watch those closely is because there is always someone that takes that as a chance to see if they can dart over it quickly without getting caught, and to the best of our ability we edit those and ALWAYS send that member a msg stating the what and why. But in this case even worse damage was done by someone running with it to the opposite extreme.
Ok, I hate that this might sound too much like I might be giving a lesson in English but if you want to mention "outrageous" and "disgusting" lets point the finger in the right direction shall we? Where do you get off accusing every one of the moderators, and thus LD and myself, of allowing such double standard perversion? To say, sarcastically or not, to "keep perpetuating the double standard" means to "Continue what already is". Please, show me ONE, just ONE place where it has happened even ONCE. You can't can you? No you can't! So don't come into my house talking about the crappy job the maid does dusting when your tracking filth everywhere with your muddy shoes.
As for the quote above ...
That quote would almost be taken on its own merit if the author wasn't the one that has gotten more personal than any other member on these forums. Im not going to get in a pissing match with anyone here. And I am not saying that for some honorable reason like, "I am above that"... Nope, I will be honest about it, it's because I DONT HAVE TO. And I shouldn't have to, there is too much of the pot calling the kettle black here and too many wanna be optomitrist trying to remove splints from their fellow members eyes while sportin beams in their own.
Riding the line and innuendos have never been a problem, and if anyone over-moderates, it would have to be my own moderation against myself! Spending any ammount of time with the groups I was with and doing the sorta things I have done within the military I have to watch myself and ask myself if my own words are really suitable.
One last thing I am going to say, between LD and myself, we have recieved no less than a dozen and a 1/2 msg's or emails, FROM WOMEN stating something to the effect that they absolutely LOVED the fact we had a womens section that all could see. The other point they all made I think was said best by one of the women that I feel couldn't be said any better than how she said it so I will quote her... "I'm sure you can't do this but I wish there was a forum called, 'All women have boobs and some are bigger than others', and just maybe if enough men got involved in those subjects then they would start making wetsuits that fit our boobs better! Maybe if our boobs were the topic of subject more, they would make sure to accomodate these things they love so much." Well, I don't think I am gonna argue with that...
To anyone that wants to jump up on the soap box ... Think before you speak, look before you leap and always look both ways before crossing the street!
=-)
There are a couple of things I would like to bring up here.
In our society, anything having to do with breast has taken on a sexual connotation. What people fail to remember is that the primary function of breast is completely and totally NON-sexual.
Now, that being said, I haven't met a woman yet, that at some time or another doesn't take pride in her breasts. Women bring attention to their breasts in a multitude of ways. Everything from augmentation, to wearing revealing tops and sometimes no tops at all. And what the heck is this WonderBra thing all about if not to draw attention to the bust line?!?!?
It has been my experience that it is women themselves who make breast an issue time and time again, many times to the point of being vulgar about it, and yet, if a man dares to make a comment, even an honest comment about being curious, those same women yell and scream about being exploited, harrassed and ogled. Talk about a double standard.
If anything, I find myself being embarrassed by the "I can flaunt them, but don't you dare say anything about them" attitude that so many woman portray. It basically like the "I can talk smack about my mom, but you can't" type of thing. I am more offended by this type of attitude and behavior than by any man's honest comments or opinions. I have received quite a few comments, PM's and emails from other female board members who feel the same way I do about this issue. In fact, it seems that about 99.9% of the women I have heard from agree with me, which is what prompted me to make this post in the first place.
So give me a break, "ladies", you can't have your cake and eat it too on this one. And when your own comments come back to haunt you, don't try to make excuses or hide the fact that you yourself are perpetuating the same double standard you profess to be fighting. Just suck it up and learn not to make the same mistakes again.
In our society, anything having to do with breast has taken on a sexual connotation. What people fail to remember is that the primary function of breast is completely and totally NON-sexual.
Now, that being said, I haven't met a woman yet, that at some time or another doesn't take pride in her breasts. Women bring attention to their breasts in a multitude of ways. Everything from augmentation, to wearing revealing tops and sometimes no tops at all. And what the heck is this WonderBra thing all about if not to draw attention to the bust line?!?!?
It has been my experience that it is women themselves who make breast an issue time and time again, many times to the point of being vulgar about it, and yet, if a man dares to make a comment, even an honest comment about being curious, those same women yell and scream about being exploited, harrassed and ogled. Talk about a double standard.
If anything, I find myself being embarrassed by the "I can flaunt them, but don't you dare say anything about them" attitude that so many woman portray. It basically like the "I can talk smack about my mom, but you can't" type of thing. I am more offended by this type of attitude and behavior than by any man's honest comments or opinions. I have received quite a few comments, PM's and emails from other female board members who feel the same way I do about this issue. In fact, it seems that about 99.9% of the women I have heard from agree with me, which is what prompted me to make this post in the first place.
So give me a break, "ladies", you can't have your cake and eat it too on this one. And when your own comments come back to haunt you, don't try to make excuses or hide the fact that you yourself are perpetuating the same double standard you profess to be fighting. Just suck it up and learn not to make the same mistakes again.
miked
Contributor
KN and LD,
They say that the demeanor of any undertaking usually starts "from the top"-the boss, owner, captain, etc.
Your lucid and direct comments addressing this "issue" are another indicator showing why these boards are as fine and proper as they are. Keep up the good work!
thanks again,
Mike
They say that the demeanor of any undertaking usually starts "from the top"-the boss, owner, captain, etc.
Your lucid and direct comments addressing this "issue" are another indicator showing why these boards are as fine and proper as they are. Keep up the good work!
thanks again,
Mike
I am honored that a thread that I started was mentioned in King Neptunes post. My thread had something to do with this discussion and with the bettering of everyone involved. This means a lot to a Troll like me. 
King_Neptune
Founder
Sure, I can see how that obviously can have an influence on things but I still hold to my long standing utterings to the effect that what really makes this place the resource that it can be and is, lays within the members that participate and make it up.
I find it funny that not once has the topic of a thread been. "This place is too concerned with matters of diving and not enough off color sexual anotomy jokes, how boring."
No one is bothered by the "Moderating" until they are Moderated themself, then it snowballs from there. Some time ago some of you may remember we had some regulators with us that are no longer ... Some, not all, but some of them were because they couldn't control their level of moderating to conform with our protocols we have set forth.
I don't want anyone to think that once a moderator that they get to run around here like a mentally-mad Red marker toting 2nd grade English teacher - Slashing every other word posted. There are even times that a post will be moderated and afterwards placed back to its original place with its original content. There is a forum just for the regulators thats often times looks like a boxing ring and gets WAY WAY WAY more heated than it ever does in out in the open forums. No regulator has any more pull that another, all are free to come to TA, LD or myself. They follow a chain of command as well.
If any of you do not agree with something they have done you can come to TA, LD or myself as well. Our goal is to balance the fun, learning and sharing around here and keep the personal attacks, racial/sexual/ethnic and such slurs and spikes where they belong - Someone other than here!
And one more thing before I wrap this one up ... Just because something is sexual in nature does not mean it can't be discussed or that certain words can't be said. What doesn't need to be said is super specific and private details that are not necessary to relay the message or point being made.
I have been asked why I felt that a certain post was edited when they felt it was a possibly important message that was being shared. Well, to explain it as best possible I will give a before and after example and why I feel this is actually better serving.
[red]Before[/red] - "And then they started masterbating and asked me if I wanted to help" ...
1st of all, as NetDoc said, Too Much Information, or it ranked a little too high on the TMI Index.
2nd, for those that said, "Its a good message to get across that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable and should be let known that it should not be permitted." - Well, I agree, but in the interest of those exact reasons mentioned I think it would have still gotten the point across and actually served a larger purpose to have said something to the effect of ...
[red]After[/red] - "Not only did they step way over the line with an indecent display of publically exposing themself to me, but they further frightened me and insulted my intelligence by having the nerve to make several remarks suggesting I partake in their sick behaviour - I immediately contacted the athorities / Got away from them / Ran for my life / Called the funny farm / Cut their air hose in half at 60 feet and swam for my life to get away etc, etc..."
Not only is the latter going to be less offensive to many, but it is going to display a CLEAR message that 1) They aren't telling a joke that is looking for a rise from people. 2) Although the fine details are left to the immagination, anyone on these forums reguardless of age, will understand that any "unacceptable behaviour" is grounds for getting your @$$ tossed in jail, etc. We don't need a seperate forum on "What is unacceptable behaviour" because this is not something these forums are trying to teach, your mother and father should have done that from a very young age. And if they didn't, then there is nothing here that any of us can do to fix them. They need help beyond what we can or should even try to do.
There is a generally acceptable way to discuss such matter among mixed company, especially one that includes children.
And let me RE-STATE for the record - I WAS NOT THE ONE THAT SAID DIVING WILL ACCEPT THE NEW YOUNGER AGES THAT WE NOW SEE WITHIN DIVING. So don't come to me saying - "well most of us are adults and we can decern what we do and dont read". Because as I said before, we do not and will not discriminate at all, if this industry is going to allow White, Black, Green or purple colors skin, so will we! If they allow Jewish, Indian, Russian, Asian, Martians or Breakfast Toast to start diving - They are welcome! (and no offense was meant or implied towards rolls, pitas or muffins either - whether white, wheat, sourdough or rye and any others I may have left out!)
I hope everyone gets the point. Im not trying to make this a humorous topic I am trying to get across that as a "Community", no one is to be shut out.
If your a Racist Pig, Religious biggot or you just hate everyone, fine, so be it, but keep it to yourself as this is NOT the place to try to spread your infectious disease, genetic mental defect or whatever it is that is your problem.
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