On Verge Of Panic!!!

[Doc Intrepid]

OL,

The part where you said you exited the wreck and stood on the deck attempting to regain composure?

"I got through and deflated BC so I was standing on the deck. I felt like I couldn't breath. I banged on my tank to get the DMs attention and signaled to him that I need to ascend 10-20 Ft because my head felt like it was going to explode."

Remember that narcosis is an equal-opportunity-hazard.

Penetrating wrecks that deep can be hazardous because you don't necessarily recognize that you're DUI (diving under the influence), and you make decisions you wouldn't make normally, or create incidents that silt out confined spaces.

Nausea, vertigo, panic, rapid shallow respiration, all of these sensations may result from nitrogen narcosis - particularly if you have blocked sinus cavities and resulting pain from pressure.

Ascending in the water column can reduce the symptoms, true, but while you're inside the wreck your opportunities for a clear ascent are limited.

Comments you've heard from others clearly reflect different lessons-learned, but I encourage you to not underestimate nitrogen narcosis. The effects are subtle and you may not think your judgement is impaired - but at 138 fsw on a single cylinder with health issues....you begin to see how major problems tend to result not from single major failures, but from the gradual build-up of a number of small problems and decisions that compound over time.

In that type of environment, narcosis can be the difference between surviving and not. There may be better options than air for planned dives to 140 fsw, and I encourage you to explore them.

Best of luck with your future diving.

Doc

 

[StreetDoctor]

I agree 100%.. Just wondering how low they were.. As stated before on previous dives these guys were like choochoo trains. It makes me think or wonder how chaotic the dive was as a whole. Not just my incident.

The more you dive the more you'll learn this is how *a lot* of divers are. It's one of the reasons I chose further education and now dive DIR, GUE, UTD, whatever you want to call it. The most important piece of equipment you have while diving is your brain and the brains of those in your dive team. As far as education, the agency doesn't matter as much as choosing the right instructor with the right mindset. That is a whole different topic though that I don't want to get into on scubaboard

 

[openmindOW]

OL, there is still much of this that I do not understand.

This is an odd situation. I have a few more questions that I hope will clarify things.

1) As I understand it, you and your buddy hired a Divemaster to guide you on this dive? Is that correct?

2) As I understand it, you were on a small dive charter. How many divers were on board? did the Captain know about your "dive plan?" If not, did he find out about it when you re-boarded the vessel?

3) You are listed as Jr Member on ScubaBoard. You handled yourself calmly and well underwater. How old are you?

4) Did this take place in the Gulf of Mexico? Did this occur in the USA? Where did you board the dive vessel?

5) How did you go about hiring the DM? Through a diveshop? Or was he a friend of friend?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

The more you dive the more you'll learn this is how *a lot* of divers are. It's one of the reasons I chose further education and now dive DIR, GUE, UTD, whatever you want to call it.

Hmmmm ... according to your profile you won't be taking your first DIR class until October.

I'd advise you to work on losing some attitude between now and then ... it'll make the class a lot easier on you and everyone else on your team.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[StreetDoctor]

Hmmmm ... according to your profile you won't be taking your first DIR class until October.

I'd advise you to work on losing some attitude between now and then ... it'll make the class a lot easier on you and everyone else on your team.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Maybe I came off that way in my post but afterall this is the internet and emotions sometimes take the best of me, I'm passionate about diving. I have a long way to go in my training and I know that. Just because I haven't taken a GUE/UTD class yet doesn't mean I haven't been formally trained in that style of diving or that I don't dive with others that have. I've dove with a great number of different "style" divers and the team diving environment is definitely where I fit in best. My post was in reference to gas management, dive planning, and equipment. Afterall I don't think it takes a card from any of the above listed agencies to properly execute a properly planned dive.

 

[OnceLoyal]

OL, there is still much of this that I do not understand.

This is an odd situation. I have a few more questions that I hope will clarify things.

1) As I understand it, you and your buddy hired a Divemaster to guide you on this dive? Is that correct?

2) As I understand it, you were on a small dive charter. How many divers were on board? did the Captain know about your "dive plan?" If not, did he find out about it when you re-boarded the vessel?

3) You are listed as Jr Member on ScubaBoard. You handled yourself calmly and well underwater. How old are you?

4) Did this take place in the Gulf of Mexico? Did this occur in the USA? Where did you board the dive vessel?

5) How did you go about hiring the DM? Through a diveshop? Or was he a friend of friend?

1) This was a dive operation that does scheduled runs. We didn't hire them I just jumped in solo with them and picked up an insta buddy. This is one of those operations were people can get certified within a few days if they want while on vaca.

2) 5 including me and the DM, I am not sure if the Capt. knew the DP or not. I would assume he did for the fact being a scheduled run.

3) I am 33 and thanks... I am one of those people that use to do a lot of "high risk" activities. Remaining calm is usually not an issue.

4) I would prefer not to say. Lets just say well East of FL

5) Just happened to meet him. Spoke for an hour or so and jumped on a few dives with him and some other divers picking up an inst-buddy for each dive.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

1) This was a dive operation that does scheduled runs. We didn't hire them I just jumped in solo with them and picked up an insta buddy. This is one of those operations were people can get certified within a few days if they want while on vaca.

I once had a mentor ... known on ScubaBoard as Uncle Pug ... who was fond of telling me "Bob, you really need to rethink your approach to that dive". I learned a lot by heeding that gentle admonition.

Many times the mistakes we make are not due to something that occurred during the dive, but because of a decision we made prior to the dive. Your comments quoted above point out one of those to me ... doing a deep dive with someone you've never dived with before is seldom a good idea. Whatever else happens afterward, you must understand that you have taken along a resource that you can't count on ... and that may turn out to be a liability. Deep dives are never a good time to be finding out which is the case.

A while back I wrote a series of articles for the benefit of my students ... OW and up ... that were primarily intended to get them to think about their approach to their dives. You can find them here ... and perhaps can gain some insight into how to approach your dives in a way that will help you avoid mishaps like this one in the future.

Best of luck ... I like that you're thinking about things, and trying to learn from your mistakes.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DandyDon]

Wow?! I'm late to this discussion, and I may have overread some info or comments, but - still want to post...

Member's shouldn't be worried about posting here but I know that an incident like the OP's can lead to members thinking and posting without considering the effects their words have.

Yeah, I wonder if we need a disclaimer on this forum?

Anything you say can and will be used against you!​

But then it is a discussion forum, where I have posted some of my screwups and been dragged over the hot coals slowly. If I wanted to post my mistakes on a no-comment blog, there's myspace. I don't want to be rude to the newbie who screwed up here, but then I would not want to support a "Ah it's okay, you'll do better in time" attitude as we have many newbie deaths to prove that's not always how it goes.

The nicest possible word I can think of to describe your DM is "reckless", and even then I feel that is an understatement. Thanks for sharing.

Well, he won't say where he was other than east of the hurricane state, so I guess he was outside of the US - where rules are only suggestions. I survived a lot of those in my ignorance too.

OL, you do seem defensive and uninterested from learning from your mistakes, but this is SB where we discuss safe diving approaches so - sorry, denial doesn't wash here, ok? I want to vote for a few points already made and maybe add some of my own. Whether you want to read them or not is up to you...

Third day congested and hit up the nostrilla again.

Since your self medicating has such a poor record here, I hope you seek good medical help.

Seemed clear so went for it. This was my first wreck and deep water dive. 140Ft.

And you should not have been there; I hope you realize that now.

Decent was slow. I stayed behind the pack and let the DM know my condition before we went in.

Ever heard of buddy diving? Good idea, divers live longer - but it doesn't sound like it was your attitude. I know, you had to go with an instant-bud; I hate that too, but for future survival episodes in your life I would suggest you qualify two points with future buds...

1: We stay close together, closer as we go deeper - OK? And we do our best to work as a team.

2: If things don't feel good, either of us calls the dive and we ascend together - not quite holding hands, but close!​

We enetered the wreck down along the walkway port side.

You really knew better, didn't you...?

It was tight with fire worms that seemed to be every where. No gloves and in a shorty I had a somewhat hard time manuvering.

If you ever dive a wreck again, gloves and long suits are essential, ok? I bought some shorties when I was new too, and salesmen like them because they're easy to fit, but they lack protection. I don't even dive them in Cozumel.

I felt like I couldn't breath. I banged on my tank to get the DMs attention and signaled to him that I need to ascend 10-20 Ft because my head felt like it was going to explode

Buddy dive and live...!

I felt kind of bad because everyone else was on the boat for at least 15 min waiting for me. LOL, thank god I don't use any air. We had a safetly bottle at 30ft. I think it was, but I still surfaced with 700psi.

Buddy? Never ever include a safety bottle in a dive plan. I carry one on my body for emergencies, but those hanging from boats are missed.

I guess it seemed a lot more dramatic to me at the time. I am a pretty new diver.

Key Largo has great shallow reef diving.

DM said it was ok,

Now you know who to believe huh...?

I take responsibility for my own actions.

Right!

As for the panic which is what this is mainly about is what freaked me out the most. Point is just because I am new to the forums wth under 20 dives under my belt, I could put 90% of the people on here through some stuff that would have them freaking out in a minute in various other forms of activities.. Panic can and does happen.

:lol: Cocky aren't ya.​

You went to 140' without a gas plan on what I presume to be an AL80
You had sinus problems before hand that you knew about
You penetrated a wreck without the proper training
and your profile says you have 0-24 dives

Amazing​

Thank you for the responses. I expected to get hamered but not insulted or have people jump to conclusions when they have no idea what the whole situation was.. I take corrective critism very well. I actually have about 20 dives from about 12 years ago, but I never got certified. I just recently got back into it and went to get certified. I have 14 logged dives since. I have a lot to learn. I got myself out of the snagged situation before the DM even knew what happened.

Should have been your buddy who helped. Your past experience at uncertified diving suggests a past attitude of recklessness you know, and a 14 dive newbie had no business on that boat.

This was a very controlled and organized dive. I just should've declined the semi penetration at my level at that depth. I have learned from my mistakes... My origional instructor was very thorough and of course I immediately called him and discussed the situation... I would'nt want to repeat this situation, but as stated before I am happy I went through it to know how I react when situations can go wrong so fast. We learn from our mstakes. I will probably keep my dives to a max of 50Ft or so until I can figure out the best course of actions for my sinus issues. Which is chronic sinusitus. Kind of a congestion without the mucus. I think I am physically addicted to nasal spray at this point which aggravates my current situation. I thank you again for the comments.

Now that was a better post, as compared to some of your others. Chronic sinusitis is what I live with, but you should talk to a qualified doctor about such - not take info from me on that..

First off I think it is pretty sad that a mod would have to come in and clean up a thread like this. Shows the amount of - well I won't say or he will be cleaning me up-

I didn't see them, but I can see from many of your posts why some may have jumped you trying to get your attention. Reminds me of an old joke about a donkey and a 2x4. (Lumber, not a vehicle)

I am...never cocky

:lol:​

Narcosis and panic...hmmmm, well I don't believe I suffered any conditions of, and before I got to the upper deck I had already calmed myself so I would want to say no. Good question though and you have me thinking. I think the panic was just a combo of the snag and the pain of someone jamming a knife into my forehead and me not being able to correct the situation immediately.

I never feel narcosis. It's like drinking a few and driving. I never feel it; I just have to constantly remind myself that I am under the influence - and at 100 ft you are, period!

I did not have my computer on me

You have one and didn't take it? :silly:

I am trying to learn everything I can from this experience.

Yeah?

Jim I am ashamed to say that I had no tables on me, also to be honest I pretty much left backup plans to the DM. (Ducking before I get hit by the fin flying through the screen)

Ok, stay with that attitude. You'll learn more admitting your screwups. Overall your posts are mixture of someone who wants to learn and someone who wants to justify bad calls. I wanted to emphasize some points and wish you the best in learning from the experienced divers here. They've helped me a lot, in spite of my similar cockiness.

 

[OnceLoyal]

Wow?! I'm late to this discussion, and I may have overread some info or comments, but - still want to post...

Yeah, I wonder if we need a disclaimer on this forum?

Anything you say can and will be used against you!​

But then it is a discussion forum, where I have posted some of my screwups and been dragged over the hot coals slowly. If I wanted to post my mistakes on a no-comment blog, there's myspace. I don't want to be rude to the newbie who screwed up here, but then I would not want to support a "Ah it's okay, you'll do better in time" attitude as we have many newbie deaths to prove that's not always how it goes.

I would not have posted if I wasn't interested in hearing comments. The thread was cleaned up a bit by a mod so you probably didn't get a chance to read some of the "nicer" parts. Bashing and correcting are 2 different things. A little bashing in this situation is deserved imo, but no need to get out of hand and/or become rude.

OL, you do seem defensive and uninterested from learning from your mistakes, but this is SB where we discuss safe diving approaches so - sorry, denial doesn't wash here, ok? I want to vote for a few points already made and maybe add some of my own. Whether you want to read them or not is up to you...

?? Little confused on that statement, anything I typed that may have sounded defensive was probably due to the rude remarks that have sense been deleted or altered.

Since your self medicating has such a poor record here, I hope you seek good medical help.

And you should not have been there; I hope you realize that now.

I actually never had this problem before. Except on the 1st dive of this little trip.

Ever heard of buddy diving? Good idea, divers live longer - but it doesn't sound like it was your attitude. I know, you had to go with an instant-bud; I hate that too, but for future survival episodes in your life I would suggest you qualify two points with future buds...

1: We stay close together, closer as we go deeper - OK? And we do our best to work as a team.

I did have an instabuddy. It was briefed that I will descend very slowly and any indication that I have a problem I would terminate the dive. I was behind the pack, meaning I was the last down on the line. The DM kept watch of everyone there. My instabuddy just wasn't much of a buddy. He didn't seem to really care.

2: If things don't feel good, either of us calls the dive and we ascend together - not quite holding hands, but close!​

You really knew better, didn't you...?

If you ever dive a wreck again, gloves and long suits are essential, ok? I bought some shorties when I was new too, and salesmen like them because they're easy to fit, but they lack protection. I don't even dive them in Cozumel.

I own a full suit. I did not have much equipment with me on this dive. I had to rent almosty everything.

Buddy dive and live...!

Buddy? Never ever include a safety bottle in a dive plan. I carry one on my body for emergencies, but those hanging from boats are missed.

Key Largo has great shallow reef diving.

Now you know who to believe huh...?

Right!

:lol: Cocky aren't ya.​

Amazing​

Should have been your buddy who helped. Your past experience at uncertified diving suggests a past attitude of recklessness you know, and a 14 dive newbie had no business on that boat.

I think it is a little far fetched to say I have an attitude of being reckless. I probably had more knowledge in me at that time then I do now , but I understand what you are saying.

Now that was a better post, as compared to some of your others. Chronic sinusitis is what I live with, but you should talk to a qualified doctor about such - not take info from me on that..

I didn't see them, but I can see from many of your posts why some may have jumped you trying to get your attention. Reminds me of an old joke about a donkey and a 2x4. (Lumber, not a vehicle)

:lol:​

I never feel narcosis. It's like drinking a few and driving. I never feel it; I just have to constantly remind myself that I am under the influence - and at 100 ft you are, period!

You have one and didn't take it? :silly:
I own a computer yes, but it was 1000 miles away.


Yeah?

Ok, stay with that attitude. You'll learn more admitting your screwups. Overall your posts are mixture of someone who wants to learn and someone who wants to justify bad calls. I wanted to emphasize some points and wish you the best in learning from the experienced divers here. They've helped me a lot, in spite of my similar cockiness.

DandyDon I don't think it is ever too late to respond to a post like this. The more info the better. I thank you for your time and input!!

 

[OnceLoyal]

I hope that last post came out ok. Doesn't seem like the quotes are in the proper positions and what not.

Dandy please don't take me as a cocky individual. As stated before you didn't get a chance to read all the posts before edited and /or deleted. That "cockiness" was to a response to one of the modified posts. Panic can happen to newbies as it could to experienced divers. Of course the odds are a little greater on a newbie for lack of experience. IMO one who jumps from airplanes, does aerobatics, free climbs, blah, blah whatever it may be is probably going to be less likely to panic than someone who keeps flowers and reads books as a hobby. Just an example. I was amazed that I actually got into a situation where I started to panic and had to calm myself down. It might have only been a 1 sec or 2, but it happened none the less. Keep in mind also that panic for someone else is probably a lot different that what I consider to be panic. When I said I started to get into a panic......I meant my heart rate elevated, which in turn increases breathing.