Open Water Certification - NAUI, ACUC, or PADI?

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Sidylor

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Hi
I joined this board in order to reconnect with the diving world and introduce my 17 year old twins (g/b) to the sport.

I am a NAUI certified Assistant Instructor and Dive Master and although once active in Canada and abroad, have not dove since 1991.

Therefore I am quite out of it.

When I left the field, NAUI was clearly the agency to be certified with in Canada, PADI and ACUC were new, BSAC was hard to find.

I have a strong prejudice against PADI from that time as there standards were so much less than NAUI, but I realise things can change. When I got my NAUI certificate you had to have your bronze medallion in swimming first. - yes I'm that old!

I would like to hear the current opinions on NAUI, PADI or ACUC certification from the point of view first of level of proficiency and safety obtained in each and secondly, if you had an ACUC certificate, would you have trouble diving in countries that only had PADI dive shops?

I realise you might all be sick of these kind of questions but would really appreciate an update on where things were at now.

Thanks kindly
 
I have seen new divers doing a PADI course in the past. My opinion is PADI is very commercial matter - when I have been doing my CMAS course, it took more than 2 months. PADI course is possible to finish within one week and possibly earlier. This is the reason why I don't believe to this system.
 
You can still use your NAUI card as well. The ACUC card should be good anywhere. If that's what your kids are doing for their certs it should not be an issue. Check out the ACUC website for more info. And BTW if you think a certain agency's standards were low then you should see em now!
 
Sidylor:
I have a strong prejudice against PADI from that time as there standards were so much less than NAUI, but I realise things can change.

Since the time you were an active diver, both PADI and NAUI have lowered their standards.

Sidylor:
I would like to hear the current opinions on NAUI, PADI or ACUC certification from the point of view first of level of proficiency and safety obtained in each and secondly, if you had an ACUC certificate, would you have trouble diving in countries that only had PADI dive shops?

You won't have any trouble having any of them accepted. Acceptance really is not an issue.

Take your time to research and find the best instructor in your area. Next, take time to complete the course. A good course will last several weeks. Don't rush this, it's something your children can spend the rest of their lives enjoying. Keep in mind there are excellent instructors in all agencies. An excellent instructor in an agency with low standards can teach a class that is better than one you would receive from a poor instructor in an agency with higher standards. It will be rare, but it happens. I would suggest asking a few questions of the instructors you might consider hiring.

How do I find an above average course and how will I know I've found it?

Interview potential instructors. Most people never ask any questions beyond price. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Excellent instructors will usually have a higher priced class for a number of reasons. The instructor is dedicated toward providing you all the time you need to master necessary knowledge and skills. Extra pool time can be expensive. Keep in mind; the instructor is trying to make a living. His time is valuable.

Consider alternatives. While many instructors teach through dive shops, some of the best are independent instructors or affiliated with colleges, universities or YMCA's.

Questions to ask the instructors:

How long have you been teaching? Most instructors improve over time. They learn new techniques and get ideas from other instructors and through experience to improve their classes.

Do you certify all your students? Only instructors who are in a hurry and care nothing about your safety will answer yes. You want an instructor who will require you to be safe and knowledgeable before issuing a c-card. An excellent instructor might tell you that he is willing to keep working with a student until the student either qualifies or gives up.

What skin diving skills will I learn? While there is some disagreement on this point, many professionals believe a solid foundation in skin diving will not only make you a better SCUBA diver, it will make learning SCUBA easier.

Will I learn confidence-building skills? There are some skills which have no direct application to a typical dive, but which do build your confidence as well as your abilities. This, combined with an understanding of the panic cycle, will make you much less likely to panic.

Do you teach the panic cycle? Panic is the most dangerous aspect of diving. Many instructors do not understand panic and believe there is no way to combat it. In actuality, panic is understood. It is though learning the panic cycle and by increasing skill levels that panic is avoided.

Do your students swim with their hands? This will let you know if the instructor pays attention to details. Good divers do not use their hands for swimming.

Do you work on trim? Divers should usually be horizontal in the water. Good instructors will see that students are striving towards good trim. Poor instructors often neglect it.

Do you overweight your students? Many instructors overweight students. It is not a good practice.

What method do you use to correctly weight your students? Any answer that does not involve actually getting in the water means you want to avoid that instructor.

How many people will be in my class? Small classes are better. You'll have more individual attention. Unless the instructor is using certified assistants, more than four students are difficult to watch.

How many certified assistants will you be using? Unless the class is relatively large (more than 4 students) this should not be an issue. An instructor should have a certified Divemaster or Assistant Instructor for every two students over four. There are times when divers working on their Divemaster or Assistant Instructor certifications assist with a class. This is normal and not an issue, but they do not count toward the assistants an instructor should have when working with larger classes.

Will I be learning skills kneeling on the pool bottom or mid-water? This question is not critical, but will let you know if you've found an instructor who has a great deal on the ball. The over whelming majority of instructors (even good instructors) teach skills kneeling on the bottom. Don't eliminate instructors who do. Some instructors have realized your mask will flood while you are swimming, not when you are sitting on the bottom. You need to learn skills in the manner in which you'll be using them.

Do you dive for fun or just when you are teaching? Instructors who've stopped diving for fun are burned out.

Questions to ask yourself:

Is the instructor patient? While talking with your potential instructor, you should be getting a feel for his personality. Patience is an important quality for an instructor. You want to avoid instructors with a drill sergeant demeanor.

Would I be happier learning from a man or a woman? Only you can answer that question, but in general it is not usually a serious consideration. There are excellent instructors and there are poor instructors. Men and women fall into both groups.
 
Hi
I joined this board in order to reconnect with the diving world and introduce my 17 year old twins (g/b) to the sport.

I am a NAUI certified Assistant Instructor and Dive Master and although once active in Canada and abroad, have not dove since 1991.

Therefore I am quite out of it.

When I left the field, NAUI was clearly the agency to be certified with in Canada, PADI and ACUC were new, BSAC was hard to find.

I have a strong prejudice against PADI from that time as there standards were so much less than NAUI, but I realise things can change. When I got my NAUI certificate you had to have your bronze medallion in swimming first. - yes I'm that old!

I would like to hear the current opinions on NAUI, PADI or ACUC certification from the point of view first of level of proficiency and safety obtained in each and secondly, if you had an ACUC certificate, would you have trouble diving in countries that only had PADI dive shops?

I realise you might all be sick of these kind of questions but would really appreciate an update on where things were at now.

Thanks kindly

Of the ones you mentioned, the only one that I would trust with the lives of anyone I loved would be NAUI.

SSI is a good choice as well, but you did not mention them.
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses.

I live in Toronto and although I myself used to be and assistant instructor with a dive shop I was inclined to have my kids go to the University Hart House Club, the Y or a scuba club with no shop affilications - so your reponses affirmed my gut instincts.

While I absolutely agree a good teacher in a 'less stringent' class is better than a poor teacher in a tougher class. I think I will look for a good teacher in a high standard class.

It really is a different world out there now. They don't even allow half the things I had done to me in my training and certification now - but as far as I'm concerned - some of those techniques resulted in a lot more competent divers so I guess I'm still a tough old bird.

I know I will be going into the water with my kids to pull of their mask and turn them upside down before they go off diving - certification or not.

And panic is a really interesting and terrifying thing. I had been diving for 23 years when I had my first panic attack and it wasn't when my gauge read faulty and I ran out of air at 60 feet - thankfully on the anchor line.

I had just gotten back from Jamica and a 130 foot wall dive. I was going off a house boat with friends in the Rideua canal system, got down about 15 feet and started to freak. All I wanted to to was rip everything off and shoot to the surface. It took ever single ounce of mind power to calm myself, rise slowly, not panic and swim to the boat. It was my first and thankfully last near panic situation diving and to this day I don't really know why it happened. All I know is how glad I was off my hard training and how I wasn't full of the need to succeed. The later, saving face, or the need not to is essential in any sport.

So that's what I want my kids to learn.

Thanks again for your responses and I hope I get back into diving a bit with my kids and that they get the tremendous pleasure and community for diving that I did.

Thanks.
 
In regard to which agencie to trust, i believe all of them has made stride to inprove their producct in the past 10 yrs, I am PADI and NAUI certified and i love both of them based on what i need from each. You can also take advantage of the options and grow yourself and your family as divers with all the advancment in safety and additional programs each agency offer, but don't bash one in order to make the other look better, take from each what you like, that will make you a better diver and Pro.
 
Start searching for an instructor for your sons by signing up for a refresher course. The jumble of letters won't help you find an instructor. . . go talk with the instructors around the area, and update your knowledge of the new gear. If the refresher course instructor is someone you would dive with, he will probably be good for your sons. If he cares about diving he will do a good job. If he's going through the motions for the $$$, keep looking.

Well, youngster, One of the divers that taught me in the late '60's learned at a service accademy from one of the founders of NAUI . . . their check out dive was to be dropped in the harbor, at night, and told to swim to shore. The class featured math to calculate times, memorizing the navy decompression tables, to the old risky standards, and a mile swim from day one of the class. Drop out from the first class was 50%.

Cards. . . you need a stinkin card. Dive shops around the world will honor any of the major recognized cards. I've never heard of ACUC, and some of the "Tech diving cards" and when I helped at a dive shop, I would ask questions of people with unfamiliar cards, and if they were comfortable and correct with the answers, I would direct them to some good easy dive sites, and question them after the dive, to verify they had made the dive and help them find the next dive site.

You're in the best forum to ask us anything. Now get your feet wet. . . At the top of the page click on "Forums". A very loooog list will pop out at you. Scroll down and look at the directory of all the topics about instruction, equipment, travel, and area clubs. When you get to the topic of instructors, don't be surprised if you find an experienced, meaning old, instructor with most every card.
As new "agencies" came along, they "cross certified" instructors, it was their way of spreading their territory.

In the beginning were local dive clubs teaching their new members, then regional, then finally YMCA started teaching to the same standards and textbook, the National Association of Scuba Diving Stores, Later NASDSchools. All along this development were good instructors, and some that just wanted to make money without working too hard. Over and over you'll read where old timers talk of the instructor, not the agency. You're looking for an instructor, that dives, even when he's not being paid to dive. Diving is fun, right?
 
In regard to which agencie to trust, i believe all of them has made stride to inprove their producct in the past 10 yrs, I am PADI and NAUI certified and i love both of them based on what i need from each. You can also take advantage of the options and grow yourself and your family as divers with all the advancment in safety and additional programs each agency offer, but don't bash one in order to make the other look better, take from each what you like, that will make you a better diver and Pro.

I agree with you mostly. . . Having certified in a course that was 5 hours per night, with a mile swim every night, two nights a week for six weeks. Today's 3-day course isn't the same. But not necessarily worse. The class I took drove off all the women enrolled, and almost everyone over 30, because of the physical requirements. Most of us that certified were still diving after 5 years, fewer at 10 years and I'm the only one still diving 35+ years later.

A very good instructor friend teaches a 3-day course at a diving area. He introduces them to the water and makes it easy for the next dive, any following weekend he gives free rental of all the gear, free air, a map of local good diving spots. . . and follow up courses, after they have a little experience. The majority of his students are still diving after 5 years, and some at 20 years. Any beginning divers can get a good start with THIS 3-day course. . . then gain experience with support from a lot of experienced divers that call this man a friend.
 
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