Our new babies!

[ffdiver]

KWS and rddvet I am not understand much in hydro tank area, looks you trying to say that LP can be fill exactly like HP : 3200 or even 3600 (instead of recommended 2400 and 10% overfilling than it is hot). It actually mean the all LP and HP classification is bull....

To a certain degree, yes it is bull.

 

[NAM001]

No i am not. Let me be clear on that..... What i am saying is that a shop that has 3200 psi available in his banks can not fill a HP to FULL. He cant even fill a dozen al80's to full with out hte compressor running. ................A LP tank because full is 2400-2640 has a much greater chance of geting a full fill because if they fill to say 2800 it cools to the proper full psi if not slightly over. you will seldon get a FULL fill on a HP tank . Larger facilities can afford the cost of running 5K systems, many smaller shops can not.
Many shops call a al80 at greater than 2700 a full tank because it cooled from 3000 psi. So once again hot fill a lp tank to 3k and you will have a FULL tank when it cools.

And your question about overfilling.... Its the tank pressure at 70 degrees F that is the official psi. You get to go over pressure 5# for every degree above 70F and still be in standards.
One more thing the US uses a 4X safety factor. that means if the tank can go pop at 20,000 then the fill pressure is assigned at 5000. (5000 x 4 = 20000) AL tanks are rated at 12000 so the working pressure is 3000. the lp steels are rated at around 10000 so the working pressure is around 2500. +/- 200 psi is a drop in the ocean. Another thing is that overfilling DOES reduce the life of a tank. The life of a tank i think is 10,000 cycles from 0 to either test pressure or working presure. I dont know anyone who can say they have 1000 fills on thier tanks, let alone 10,000. Rental tanks is another story. Those tanks are sold off long before they reach half of thier life usage.

Hope this helps a bit.

KWS and rddvet I am not understand much in hydro tank area, looks you trying to say that LP can be fill exactly like HP : 3200 or even 3600 (instead of recommended 2400 and 10% overfilling than it is hot). It actually mean the all LP and HP classification is bull....
I still believe that different permissions are mean something.
Overfilling probably also depends of area, scubadiver888: ---You aren't going to find a shop in his area that will overfill a LP ---
I personally prefer to follow recommendations and use HP tank if I need more than 2640 psi and I will never ask to fill my HP120 more than 3442 psi as written on it.
If nobody ask how to fill your LP private tank, for me it just pointed to low service level in the shop or low understanding, but it may be personal feeling also.
Common excuse : all people do it.

 

[fire_diver]

Roman, the reason people shouldn't fear overfilled tanks is the design standards those tanks are built to. A tank has to be able to withstand 12,000 hydro-testing cycles without failing. The hydro testing pressure is 5/3 of the working pressure. That means that a cylinder with a working pressure of 3000 psi can be filled to 5000psi at least 12,000 times without failure. That's strong evidence you don't have to fear over-filling a tank by a few hundred psi.

 

[NAM001]

Roman,

I have heard that outside of the US some countries use a 3x and 2.5x safety factor instead of the 4x here at home. If teh same US tanks were allowed to be used else where you could fill 1/3 more with a 3x factor and 2/3 with a 2.5 factor. the lp tank instead of 2400 would be allowed 3200 for a 3x and 4000 for a 2.5 x. Granted tanks manufacturing in different countries are differrent as as such some are not allowed into the US. New UN STANDARDS WILL NOW START BRIDGING THAT GAP. I guess "one world one tank" is here.

 

[mikeycanuk]

Sweet mikey, did Norbert/Jessica sell you those? Looks like their shop.

Correct! They are moving back to a retail location just down Elgin Mills towards Leslie. I guess the cheaper rent in a industrial location didn't pan out, location location..well you know.

We paid $395 or $405 a tank, same as Aquarius Scuba and $100 less than Scuba 2000. We did a Niagara river dive with them and charged us $180 for a "weekend" six tank rental. Figured might as well invest in our own tanks at that rate. We liked the steels we used in Coz so why not spend a little more $ for a better tank with more air? Plus Norbert has a 50% off air cards in June and $20 vis vs $40 at Scuba 2000.

As for the nets, I take them off for diving. Well except my wife's pink ones. Oddly they are a smaller diameter and won't come off. I stack the tanks in the work truck and cart them around so it makes sense to me to protect them.

Love the tanks! We did our rescue last month and half way through ditched what little weight we had and still had no issues descending with half empty tanks. If we ever go drysuit in the future the buoyancy characteristics of the HP100's will be appreciated.

 

[Itsacon]

Roman,

I have heard that outside of the US some countries use a 3x and 2.5x safety factor instead of the 4x here at home. If teh same US tanks were allowed to be used else where you could fill 1/3 more with a 3x factor and 2/3 with a 2.5 factor. the lp tank instead of 2400 would be allowed 3200 for a 3x and 4000 for a 2.5 x. Granted tanks manufacturing in different countries are differrent as as such some are not allowed into the US. New UN STANDARDS WILL NOW START BRIDGING THAT GAP. I guess "one world one tank" is here.

But then, the American HP level isn't comparable to European High Pressure anyway. With DIN, low is 200 Bar and high is 300 Bar, which roughly equates to 2900 and 4350 psi, respectively. Tanks are often overfilled 10% in my (granted, still limited) experience, so even a 200 Bar DIN tank will be filled very close to the US HP pressure point, while a 300 Bar tank exceeds the official limit of a Yoke regulator by more than 25%.

This is also why all DIN regulators can be converted to Yoke (DIN 200 regs are actually officially rated to 232 Bar for this reason, so they can fit HP Yoke bottles), but Yoke can only be converted to DIN 200, not to DIN 300

 

[Roman_66]

Roman,
I have heard that outside of the US some countries use a 3x and 2.5x safety factor instead of the 4x here at home.

I was not able to find officially written confirmed information above, so I will continue to use LP as LP and HP as HP.
Due the fact that only Faber with not excellent specification is available in US if you looking for new steel tanks, I hope shortly Europe manufacturers like Eurocylinder (BTS) will have DOT approval. I like CONCAVE cylinders.