For recreational dives I see no problem with not having redundancy. If the dive computer fails during the dive then the proper response is to ascend to the surface. A 3 minute safety stop at 15-20' would be nice but not necessary if you don't know when you're at 15-20'.
Wouldn't it be nice to not have to end your day of diving?
What about making the ascent from, say 60 feet down? Without a means to measure depth, most divers wil find it hard to make a safe ascent. I have to disagree with you; a recreational diver with one computer should carry a depth gauge as a backup for an emergency.
Because the computer does not require a square profile for its calculations, the dives actually done will often make the tables go haywire.
In that case, your day IS done. But, if your dive can be computed manually, you can figure out how to do the next dive.
Since the tables require a square profile, comparing apples to apples, some (e.g., Suunto) computers will give less time with a square profile than the tables tables.
Reset your safety factor to standard. Second, your "clarification" was dead wrong. You completely missed what I was driving at. If you have a new student carry a computer, they can compare their actual dive times with a table at the
end of the dive, and see how much more time they gained. This can be a big selling point for a new diver.
For those who have the money to devote to this problem, the solution is a back-up computer.
Of course having a plan-b is a good idea, but the better backup for a failed computer while diving is another computer.
Wow...I wish I lived in
your world. You know, the one without bills, a mortgage, kids, a wife (husband) and a dog; all who need food and shelter. I wish I had unlimited quantities of cash to blow on dive gear. Must be nice...
It took me a long time to buy a computer, even longer until I could afford two. For most people, a few hundred dollars isn't just something they have laying around to spend.
My point is that many divers can't afford ONE computer, let alone two. Not teaching them the backup is the PADI method of trying to squeeze another dollar out of them. Now, they HAVE to buy that computer or rent one on their trip. No doing a cheaper trip or set of dives. No diving for the day if their one computer does go down. You've done them a grave disservice.
The issue I see isn't backup and even though tables are a lousy option for this as compared to other options, it seems to be the only thing people bring up in every one of these discussions as a reason to keep training them.
Because it's a valid reason. Your idea to throw cash at the problem (buy more gear) is not one that is feasible for every diver.
In your example above, if, during the ultimate holiday, the diver fell back to tables and continued to dive the rest of the trip with them then they would ultimately get less bottom time for the trip than if they did a 12-18 hour SI and carried on with a new computer.
I never said it was the rest of the trip,
did I? You're making things up. What I said is that tables can be a perfectly good means to get them through to the end of the DAY, where they can continue the next day with a new computer.
Much better than hanging up the fins for the rest of the day and watching their friends have all the fun, isn't it?
How would you address the problem I have mentioned a couple of times in this thread that after a period of time, people generally do not remember how to use the tables correctly? I see a risk in this that I believe can be better addressed by recommending using a 2nd computer as a backup. I see no benefit in assigning blame for this. It doesn't address the fact. The fact remains that if people do not use the tables on a regular basis most of them will forget over time how to apply them correctly.
Sorry, but since we are not born knowing how to dive, then it IS someone's fault. If the instructor does not teach them, or teaches them wrong, it IS your fault as an instructor.
If the diver is properly trained by you, then it is the diver's fault for not staying current in their training. It's called personal responsibility.
Second, it often takes a diver longer to learn a computer than tables. What do you do if the diver is a vacation diver who rents the computer there, or only uses their computer once or twice a year? Or if they have multiple computers? You have to dive a computer to get to use it properly. Many divers don't have the facilities to do this. Staying current with a set of tables involves nothing more than 30 minutes with the table, OW manual, and a pencil and paper. Less time than it takes to read the computer manual.
I still see instructors around me failing to teach computers and as a result they are teaching something the student isn't going to use and failing to teach something that the student WILL be using.
Then, because we all agree that teaching computers is essential, the real question is why haven't you slapped them upside the head (figuratively, or not; your choice) for not teaching to standard? Or reported them?
However, as I've said above, I see tables as an inferior way of backing up a computer, *especially* during that trip of a lifetime....s is the reason we can only use tables as a back up for computers if the dive *happens* to fall somewhere on the same map. Often times it does not.
And??? Either way, the diver would be done for the day. A backup does not have to cover
every eventuality perfectly, just cover most well.
I disagree with you that learning tables makes one a more skilled diver. It might make them a more knowledgeable diver.
A more knowledgable diver IS a more skilled diver. They are better prepared to handle emergencies and failures.
---------- Post added March 16th, 2014 at 08:05 AM ----------
My point. if I were to take my tables on a dive trip I'd incur excess baggage as i have so many (I'm being flippant here) so they don't go on the "ultimate dive trip"
What??? "excesss baggage"???
You do know that tables come not in those big tables the instructor holds up in class to show everyone, right? They have the handy pocket size as well.
If my comp failed I'd scrub the next diver and hire one for the rest of the vacation. Blah blah blah with the backup argument it doesn't figure unless of course you take a spare set of everything!
Uh...No. If your reg or BC fails, you can always return and swap for another or rent another. Ask how many divers have a spare reg or BCD with them on every trip. It's not needed. But tables are like a save-a-dive kit. They are small, compact, take up no room. They let you overcome a small obstacle like a computer failure and continue your next dive, or two, or three; until the day is done. Then you can fix the problem of not having a computer.
By your logic, no diver should ever take ANY backup gear. No octo, no fin straps, no mask strap...nothing, unless they're prepared to haul their entire LDS with them. Your argument fails the common sense test.
