Pace of Classes

[MXGratefulDiver]

NW,
Don't have a cow, big guy. As BDB points out, I said "pool". I meant "pool". I never misrepresent; snide comments (oops, sorry, that's UP ) and sound advice only. :>) It was not my goal to impugn your character or actions.
Neil

Neil, you said ...

I would love to observe an "instructor" teaching a 4-6 hour course. I'd even enroll in one if I could!

Those are your words, big guy ... whatever you meant.

But the quotation marks around the term "instructor" tells me everything I need to know about your goal.

And FWIW, I'm not an instructor ... I'm a DM.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[neil]

Neil, you said ...
Those are your words, big guy ... whatever you meant.
But the quotation marks around the term "instructor" tells me everything I need to know about your goal.
And FWIW, I'm not an instructor ... I'm a DM.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

All sniping and griping aside, I still don't think that it's possible to teach, in 4-6 hours, a FULL (8) class of students the skills required to dive at a level that is consistent with the "new" thinking as talked about on this board. The more respected and experienced instructors on this forum say they can't do it, and neither can I. The quotes around the word -instructor- in my first post show that I doubt that it can be done to the level we are talking about and that I think these instructors are not at THE LEVEL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. I could teach rototillers all day using 4-6 hours of pool time. I could probably demo and have someone attempt every skill once in about an hour. What the heck do you think my "goal" is? My GOAL?
FWIW, I know you're not an instructor, it's in your profile. Not sure why that's important, as long as you have something interesting to say. Anytime you want, my ITC on the beautiful CA central coast. Warm water for you .

So, the question I have for YOU is: at the end of 6 hours of pool time are the divers in the classes you assist with diving at the level you would want them to be if they were YOUR students or YOUR dive buddy. If so, congratulations to the instructor because he's very good (OR you and I disagree on standards of skill performance.)
Does the instructor do a lot of teaching or remediating in OW? If so, he needs more pool time.

The original post was about the pace of the class, and I don't think anyone can argue that classes with shorter pool times are going to be more hectic than those with longer pool times. Again, assuming full size classes and no more than one assistant. (NW, you have one per buddy team sometimes? You're spoiling them).
Again, my experience, my opinion, my sense of humor.
Neil

PS I actually AM a big guy!

 

[livestodive]

I have seen students come back with 2300 psi in an al80 after a 2 hr "pool" session. Got 2 hrs in the pool, but not 2 hrs under water. This instructor does not certify anyone I know, instead I send them to another instructor that allows them time under water.

Talk to the instructor, get the time needed. If this can't be done run to an instructor who can. There is no enjoyment in having to dive with someone who is stressed about their skills when a rushed cert is given. That happened with my wife then on dive #30 after certification she told me she had a good time. It took her 30 dives to start to feel comfortable enough to relax and enjoy it. In 3 years she now has over 100 dives . We live in northeast and diving times are limited by weather.

A lot of people get certified and then dive once or twice and then quit. I always wonder how many of them are not confident in their skills.

 

[neil]

I have seen students come back with 2300 psi in an al80 after a 2 hr "pool" session. Got 2 hrs in the pool, but not 2 hrs under water. This instructor does not certify anyone I know, instead I send them to another instructor that allows them time under water.

A very good observation. Someone on the board once said that 95+% of diving is swimming around U/W, so that's what the students should be doing in the pool. I strive to have my classes spend as much time as possible U/W, but I couldn't tell what percentage is spent that way. My next class I'll keep a tally of U/W time. Let's see: newbie SAC of 1 cfm, pool depth 14 ft. AL80, finish with 2500 psi. Something like 47 minutes of bottom time. More, considering they will not be near the bottom all the time. Let's say an hour, half the session. If 6 hours of pool time involved 3 hours of actual U/W time, that would be impressive. If my 12 hour pool time involves 6 hrs of U/W time, I will be pleasantly surprised and amazed! Nevertheless, it's something to consider and strive for. Remember, when the class is U/W, you can't hear them whine.
Neil

 

[primalchaos]

My wife and I are taking the PADI open water class. I have prior experience scuba diving and my wife has none. I noticed that the pace of the practical excersises is somewhat fast and they really jump right into getting you in the water using scuba. However, for people with no prior experience with scuba, it can be somewhat intimidating.

Why do they not get people used to the weight and feel of scuba equipment snorkeling with it first and then progress? It seems out of order to have snorkeling excersises later on.

Mattymatt - I asked our LDS for more time. They are very open to checkout dives, new gear tests, scuba skills updates in the pool and pond by the store. In my class, which was before my wife's, I didn't feel I mastered everything the way I felt comfortable with. So, they put me in with my wife's class, where a dive con was "extra" getting hours towards instructing, and was looking for someone to help. So it was a really good fit to get in there and work with the instructor I was going to Bonne Terre for my OW cert, and to get comfortable with my gear and skills.

The LDS's approach to certification was "we will work with you to get you certified", and provided you don't freak on a skill or just can't do one, they will keep working with you until you get it. My wife had to miss her last pool session due to ear blockage (they actually sent her out of the pool on the class before), and there will be no problem in her getting back in the pool to finish up. The LDS understands that we want to be divers, and they want us to be divers.

It was hard for me to ask about more time, but I felt alot more comfortable with myself, gear and skills when I went for my OW, and the instructor I went with from the same LDS got to evaluate me in the pool first. I guess in this long winded response, what I meant is, you're the customer

Leon