PADI Deep Diver course

[willanz]

Hey,

I like my diving in the 90-100' range. Air/Nitrox

My days would start out with a full day of work and then going diving in the evenings. I would notice the effects of narcosis alot more on dives in the evenings instead of the morning ones.

My easy way of recognizing it was to check my pressure gauge and then put it away.(clip off) I would then forget what I just looked like. That would would send up red flags. Sometimes I would also feel that the dive was happening pretty fast when in reality I was just thinking a bit slower.

However when I go diving after a full nights rest these bigger signals were less noticeable. Then I would notice more in my buddies. Their signals were slower and tecnique took a bit longer to adjust. Dealing with tasks at depth was also slower.

On a recent cave dive in the Devils system, My buddy and I went in to check out a place called the Ice room. This required some skills at depth of 90-95' throughout the dive. Starting with swimming against flow(Exertion), carrying a stage bottle(DRAG more exertion), Navigation(monitoring the lines and markers), Running jump spools to connect lines(task loading at depth) We did 2 of them and then found an unexpected T in the line (Again Navigation decision and marking), a second unexpected T Finally 40 mins later we were in the Ice room. We swam around and decided to start our way back. I then got a signal from my buddy as I was leading out. He showed me the line was frayed(only held in place by a couple of threads). I could not believe we missed this on the way in. I thought I had just done that as I swam out....don't know how.

We stopped to repair it pulling out safety spools at 90' about 1000' back into this cave. Plenty of gas as we had not hit our turn pressure. I hold the line while he cuts and repairs. It took him 2 tries for the first knot and then the second went on the first try. As he tested it I got the spool back and made 3 attempts to make a bolen knot and I gave up. I put it away in my pocket and started out. We exited picking up our markers, spools, stage bottles and decided to do one more jump before leaving the cave then made it up to our decompression stops after 100 mins of bottom time.

At 20', I took out the spool and nailed the knot on the first try without thinking twice about it.

What happened before with the knot?
Was it because I was Tired? Too much task loading? Length of dive? OR an unexpected task at depth?

Having done about 20 dives of the same depth, time and task loading...less unexpected suprises.

My best guess is the leading factor was the unexpected task and the "Oh Sh*T" that ran through my head when I saw the line frayed. Makes you think about how you would react if it was your buddy signalling out of air or you buddy was gone.

We talked about the dive and my buddy mentioned a little bit of Helium would have gone a long way on that dive.

He has the Tech training and experience...myself I just avoid deep dives : )


My deepest dive ever: 137' To grab a narced diver that had already done his AOW class to 100'. He kinda forgot to put air in his BC. It took me until 110' to react as I thought he wanted to check out something that was just below us. Then by the time I grabbed and adjusted bouyancy for both of us and started back up. We had dropped to 137'. That level of narcosis is completely unacceptable for either one of us. Especially since I was going along as the experienced Buddy. Dive was over and we did some diving in the 70' range for a while.


Try to get in touch with the instructor about going along on another dive trip.

I have had the experience of weather fouling up my dive plan. I made it up to my students by taking the time to invite them on some of my favorite wrecks in Ft. Lauderdale. 90-100' range.

 

[TCDiver1]

Willanz,

Damn narcosis wins everytime. Rotten little affliction eh?:bonk:

 

[JamesK]

Sounds fun William. What line was it that you fixed? Did you metion it to the folks at Ginnie?

 

[exnewwavedivers]

It seems no one really answered what bengiddins posted.

**********

The PADI Deep Diver course includes four open-water training dives, which will be conducted over at least two days. The minimum depth for each training dive is 18 to 30 meters, with no dives exceeding 40 meters.

You learn:

1. Planning, organization, procedures, techniques, problems and hazards of deep diving.

2. Risk factors and decompression tables review.

3. Safety stops and emergency decompression procedures.

4. Special equipment, descent lines and buoyancy control considerations.

5. Procedures for flying after diving and high-altitude diving.

6. Orientation to recompression chambers.

**********

In reaction to some posts prior to this one:

Oxygen, those not metabolized by the human body, is also an inert gas. Technical diving agencies support the belief that oxygen has the same narcotic effect as nitrogen, hence the term INERT GAS NARCOSIS. Diving using nitrox, therefore, does not reduce the possibility of divers getting narcosis.

I am sorry to hear that some people actually consider the programs offered by training agencies as a waste of time and money. About students not learning at all, either this student has a problem or the instructor who trained this student cut corners.

Think of all the recreational dive courses, including the specialties as the complete scuba diver education.

When a diver completes the open water diver course, he has dived to a maximum depth of 60 feet. This diver is advised to dive within the limits of the training and in conditions similar to the training dives. At this point, this newbie has two options. Go for dives or learn more.

Experience is very important and nothing beats picking up dives. But, it is not only the number of dives that counts. It is also the theoretical knowledge and applying this knowledge into practice. This is what students learn in continuing diver education training.

Deep Diver, is it a waste of money? I don't think so. If a student wants to pay for this course, he gets what is listed in the outline I gave above. This student learns valuable lessons, and depending on how experienced and how much the instructor is willing to share, practical tips.

While some of you have focused on narcosis as being a potential problem in deep diving, do not forget decompression sickness.

Someone pointed out that the only thing you learn in this course is to monitor depth and pressure gauge, to decrease likelihood of running out of air. Was there a solution provided? Of course. Spare air, brought down or hanging at 15 feet. That may not look like much but it has, time and again, proven itself to be a lifesaver.

Someone also suggested going down with trusted diving companions and see how it feels after a dive to 100' and so on... not a good idea if the purpose is to see how it feels to be down deep. Here are some scenarios:

1. Buddy is an open or advanced open water diver: one diver, regardless of who, get impaired, the other did not recognize. Uh-oh.

2. Buddy is a rescue diver: while taught the basics of recognizing problems underwater, skill level cannot compare to that of a professional diver.

3. Buddy is a divemaster/instructor: now, this here is a potential for disagreements, even amongts instructors. Personally, I never take an open water diver to more than 70-80 feet, depending on experience and skill level. Why? Doing so without the benefit of proper education can make some reckless. Because I cannot possibly know who might be a safe or dangerous diver in the future, I am not going to be the one plant the seed for over-confidence in the future. I'm sure each one of us instructors here have our share of divers coming to us saying, "i've done this, i can do that" blah blah blah.

I do have to admit though, some open water divers really are good and knowledgeable. Can everyone be like that? No. These are the people who I consider "special". Once in a while, an open water diver might come and show real interest in learning, asking good questions, most professionals appreciate this kind of attitude and share their knowledge. In time, this diver becomes very good and knowledgeable, even without continuing education.

To say the programs and courses offered by training agencies is just marketing would not be fair. For some people, they have the money to pay, and they do. In return, they get further training and experience.

P.S. One more thing, about that remark on how an instructor ripped off someone who did a 63 feet deep dive in AOW... I wouldn't go as far as saying that. It is within standards and to say that was a rip off is an attack on the agency setting that standard, which in this case, probably involves majority, if not all of the training agencies. Before actually saying it's a rip-off, better to have more details first.

 

[Scubaroo]

Thanks newwavedivers.

Regarding the 63 foot dive, the planned dive was to 100 feet, but rough weather in Monterey Bay turned the boat back closer inshore.

"4. Special equipment, descent lines and buoyancy control considerations." - does this include SMBs?

 

[willanz]

newwavedivers,

I have had divers ask before about doing a deep course or doing deep dives. I try to go ahead and explain some of the things you mention here:


"1. Planning, organization, procedures, techniques, problems and hazards of deep diving."

But then we start to compare the risk vs benefit.

So far everytime we blow off the deep diving.


It's amazing some of the other things you can do while diving when you are shallower. Lots of bottom time. Myself being a bottom time junkie would rather do an hour at 70' instead of 20 mins at 100' or even less when deeper. Or to try and adjust my enriched air down below 28% to be able to mathematically get 2 more minutes from the dive.

Again Risk vs. Benefit.


Sorry but you can't pay me enough to take you deep under conditions I wouldn't dive myself.

I will not put you in any position where you become a hazard to me.

And to answer the original question. Avoid deep dives or take up technical training. Within Recreational limits, err may not be worth it but for Tech diving pushing 10 mins over the ndl is nothing more than a safety stop on a different gas.

Then Bottom time is limited by the amount of deco you would like to do. Not to mention proper equipment incase of failure at depth.


James K,

We fixed the line to the Ice room past the second T in a very low section. When I mentioned it to other divers. I got an uneasy response. "Oh Yeah, I saw it and will fix it next time." I mentioned it was fixed but they should check on it anyways.

Then I went on to post it on my dive report on E-CAVERS to let my buddies know of the repair.

 

[exnewwavedivers]

I agree with you, willanz, that deep diving also boils down to risk vs. benefit, and if I amy add, environment and dive site. For instance, here in Boracay, our most popular dive site is called Yapak 2. Negative entry and blue water descent to until you reach a wall beginning at 100 feet. With strong currents, pelagics can be seen here including sharks and ... tunas bigger than sharks.

Now, other dive sites can be shallow, can stay longer, can be as much fun too. Ultimately, it is the diver who decides if he wants to do Yapak. Of course we reserve the right to automatically turn down open water divers, with a few exceptions though. We require all levels of divers, pro or technical to do a check out dive with us in other sites first before we take them to Yapak.

Some of them, they would start asking about advanced or deep or even nitrox. Then we explain. See, us being professional, everytime we open our mouth to say something, all they would think about is "uh-oh here comes more sales pitch". I would rather wait until they ask before I explain.

 

[Divesherpa]

If oxygen is so narcotic, why aren't you narced at 20 feet on 100%. The partial pressure of oxygen is as high as it should ever be. I agree with NewWave on everything with the exception of this point.

 

[Scubaroo]

Originally posted by Divesherpa
If oxygen is so narcotic, why aren't you narced at 20 feet on 100%. The partial pressure of oxygen is as high as it should ever be. I agree with NewWave on everything with the exception of this point.

Couldn't get my little table of partial pressures to format nicely, see newwavediver's post below which basically was raising the same point.

 

[exnewwavedivers]

Let's see, 20 feet is about 6m. At 6 meter, the surrounding pressure is 1.6 bar.

At depth, let's say beginning 100 feet/30 meters, the surrounding pressure is 4 bars.

6m:

partial pressure of oxygen is 1 x 1.6 bar = 1.6

30m:

partial pressure of nitrogen is .79 + partial pressure of oxygen (unused should be around .17 = .96 x 4 bars = 3.84

Need I say more?