Padi/Dsat gear configuration

[MikeFerrara]

xoomboy once bubbled...
While I'm a huge proponent of change, it's important to keep in mind that not all progress can be considered good progress.

Change for change's sake is not the right way to do things, especially in an arena where loss of human life is the consequence of improper action. Proper change can only come from education, experimentation, and enlightenment, not from merely deciding one day that things should be different and making it so.

Unfortunately, no one has come into the mix to defend the PADI/DSAT side of things, so it makes for a biased debate -- albeit one of the most informative ones I've followed so far on this board. Mike and others have done a great job of referencing the materials and sources available to us, but there are also a lot of questions that we have which need to be answered by someone involved in the process.

I agree with all of the arguments made by everyone so far. However, I need more information to make my own opinion!

Matt

Matt,
I think you bring up a good point. I have tried to point to information. I'm not the best writter and my opinion does end up in there also. However I don't recommend the program. On the other hand I don't think I have ever recommended a "tech" course. I hesitate to recommeng deep diving. IMO, most shouldn't do it. Once you do get into it one of the first things you notice is not even the "experts" agree on what is the best method, decompression model or equipment configuration. There are many theories but little real proof. In the end one needs to research and decide what they are comfortable doing. While I know what I do and that it has worked so far I don't know that I can prove it will work next time. When you pick a methode and start a dive you are excepting all the responsability becaus you are the one at risk once you get in the water.

 

[MikeFerrara]

MechDiver once bubbled...


I think they adapt to where the money is. One of the reasons I no longer DM is PADI's insistence on putting pressure on students to spend more. Although I am a firm believer in continued dive education, PADI does not push it to improve diver ability, but to make money.

I don't know off hand how many PADI cards I have, 10 maybe, but I shudder whenever I hear PADI and "tech" in the same sentence.

Phil

In the case of some specialties they are simply an oportunity to gain experience and have fun. Entertainment. A shop puts on an event. You attend. They charge money. You get a little card. Some of these classes are really useful even mandatory others are just entertainment.

We put on an Ice diving class every year. I don't think any of my students has ever gone ice diving except with our group. To be honest I think they come for the chilli. None of these people need to know how to ice dive it's all for fun.

 

[algorithm]

PADI did a good job in developing the academic part of there program so that want to be teck divers understand and are able to pass there written exam. But on the other hand I have seen crappy instructors who can't dive deep if there life counted on it, now becoming Teckwreck instructors. If i'm not mistaken the open water try outs are done in single tanks to 130' max. If you havn't been trained by IANTD or TDI I don't think you should be teaching techWreck. PADI doesn't have the technical staff history to be offering a stable open water exams. Its just another case of they have all the money and are trying to push excellent existing IANTD and TDI instructors to cross over to PADI and help out with there needs, but PADI keeps forgetting to offer insentives to do so like low insurance and membership rates, thats why many PADI DM and Instructors are on other agencies insurance plans.

 

[MikeFerrara]

To all...
Give opinions on the following;
Recreational divers goint to 130 ft with single tank, no redundancy and little training.

The same divers as above following a DM through a coral swim through at 150 ft.

The same divers following a DM through a wreck at 100 ft

These thing go on every day at resorts around the world and nobody seems to have a problem with it. Well....maybe me but that's part of the reason I'm not very popular.

 

[MikeFerrara]

algorithm once bubbled...
PADI If i'm not mistaken the open water try outs are done in single tanks to 130' max.

That's not true. You need to have a skill evaluation filled out by an instructor with an equivilant or higher rating. You must use equipment consistant with the requirements of the course. I single tank wouldn't do it. That's not to say that there isn't cheating going on.

There are plenty of instructors who can't dive even tech instructors. Boy could I tell stories!

 

[algorithm]

Thats not true. I have a friend who is a PADI course director who performed his exam in california with other course directors all done on single tanks, and to blow it all up further, he never dove below 140' in his life until the exam. Don't beleave everything you hear from PADI theres plenty of palm rubbing going on there.:bonk:

 

[MechDiver]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
To all...
Give opinions on the following;
Recreational divers goint to 130 ft with single tank, no redundancy and little training.

The same divers as above following a DM through a coral swim through at 150 ft.

The same divers following a DM through a wreck at 100 ft

These thing go on every day at resorts around the world and nobody seems to have a problem with it. Well....maybe me but that's part of the reason I'm not very popular.

The problem is, althought none of them are bright things to do, very few people get hurt doing them. That to me is a big contradiction in scuba. Although it IS dangerous, and IS life threatening, stupid divers do stupid things day in and day out and get away with it.

I am afraid if the rec/teck thing catches on, that will no longer be the case.

Phil

 

[MikeFerrara]

algorithm once bubbled...
Thats not true. I have a friend who is a PADI course director who performed his exam in california with other course directors all done on single tanks, and to blow it all up further, he never dove below 140' in his life until the exam. Don't beleave everything you hear from PADI theres plenty of palm rubbing going on there.:bonk:

That's just the cheating I was talking about. But dont worry. I carry an extra slate with a special note on it for these guys when I see them under water. And the slate says.....

"I'LL COME BACK FOR YOUR EQUIPMENT". In the event that I forget my slate we have developed some intersting hand signals to convey this message. With some imagination I'm sure you can duplicate it.

 

[Scuba]

This is from Padi's website:

After successful completion of the DSAT Tec Deep Diver course you'll be able to conduct gas-switch extended no-decompression dives, decompression dives and accelerated decompression dives using air and enriched air to a depth of 50 metres/165 feet. You'll also understand the hazards and risks involved in technical diving, as well as how to prepare for and handle reasonable foreseeable technical diving emergencies

I don't think they are advocating air only up to this depth, in addition theese are the prerequisites for the class:

PADI Advanced Open Water Diver (or qualifying certification from another organization)
PADI Rescue Diver (or qualifying certification from another organization)
PADI Enriched Air Diver (or qualifying certification from another organization)
PADI Deep Diver (or qualifying certification from another organization)
Have a minimum of 100 logged dives of which 20 must be enriched air dives, 25 dives must be deeper than 18 metres/60 feet and at least 15 dives must be deeper than 30 metres/100 feet
Minimum age: 18 years old

I'm not defending them, but in all fairness it has been mentioned that they are advocating air only deep dives, and this would contradict that assertion.

They have several Tec Rec courses, and the only one that does not mention enriched air is the Intro course. It also does'nt state how deep students go in this course.

 

[Genesis]

no Helium.