PADI Open Water Knowledge Reviews

[Xizang]

PADI just released its 4th quarter training bulleting and startying Jan. 1, 2006 all students are required to have their own manual during the course and have it with them for future reference.

 

[in_cavediver]

I am always fascinated by this discussion.

Let's spin this out a bit. Let's say that we can all figure out a way to take PADI (or any other certifying agency) courses without paying for them. Eventually, your certifying agency goes out of business because nobody paid for the service they offer. I mean, it's just knowledge right; that has no actual value once it has been transferred once.

So, your certifying agency is gone. And one day you spend a couple thousand dollars to travel to some exotic destination to dive and the shop there declines to fill your tanks or rent you gear because you are no longer certified by an existing agency.

That is not a farfetched scenario.

Personally, I think these kinds of discussions truly go to a very fundamental concern. If someone is willing to cut corners on something as basic, and cheap, as course material. Then there is a real question about their willingness to be safe when it comes to the far more expensive proposition of dive gear, and the safety inherent to making the right decisions on the purchase and maintennance of that gear.

In my opinion, dive instruction is incredibly inexpensive. Dive instructors clearly do it for the love of the sport. The course material costs practically nothing compared with other activities of comparable nature. Not to mention, there are so many certifying agencies for diving, unlike activities such as sky diving and flying. That competition seems to keep the price low.

If someone is unwilling to pay for a book, how can I trust that person to have the necessary equipment to be my dive buddy?

I don't mean to offend here, and I understand there are varying levels of financial ability involved. But by the same token, I have never heard anyone say "I'm an unsafe diver because I can't afford to be a safe diver...but I'll dive anyway."

A final point: Personally, I would like to see my certifying agency continue in business. Just like I want to see Adobe continue to come out with new versions of Photoshop. For that reason, I am willing to pay for the services both offer.

Again, I hope I haven't offended anyone here.

Best wishes and safe diving.

Jeff

This misses one point. He ALREADY has a copy of the book minus the 5 worksheets. Are you telling me that those 5 worksheets are the key to the book and without them, the material is somehow comprimised?

Its about money, pure and simple.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

This misses one point. He ALREADY has a copy of the book minus the 5 worksheets. Are you telling me that those 5 worksheets are the key to the book and without them, the material is somehow comprimised?

Its about money, pure and simple.

Actually, that's exactly what I'm saying for three reasons.

1. The book is incomplete and the knowledge reviews are an important part of the book and its purpose.

2. Those books are supposed to remain with the original student, so his having the book means another diver does not.

3. Those pages are copyrighted material. I realize a lot of people don't understand the nature of intellectual property, but PADI made an investment in creating that and they have a right to earn a return on it.

Do I believe it is about money? Sure. But it's about money on both sides. On one side a company invested in creating a product and wants a return for their investment. On the other side someone is trying to avoid paying for something. So, yes, it is certainly about money.

I also stand by my eariler point, that not wanting to invest in something as inexpensive as a new book raises questions about what other more expensive equipment someone would decide not to invest in.

Safe Diving

Jeff

 

[NYPI]

I never had a problem with handing in a copy of the knowledge reviews in fact the owner of the LDS suggested copying them so it may be used for future reference. I do however purchase all my study material from the same shop. Never heard a peep from PADI about it but I thought the reviews were held in a file at the LDS and only the pic card was sent to PADI. (?)

Making blank copies of the review is the first thing I do. I read the book and put the answers on the copies then make a copy of the copies to place at the end of each chapter in my book the other set is of course handed in.

 

[Hoosier]

It is so funny to read this thread.... It is an endless debate.

There are only two parties.

Shop monkey and owner or instructor = buy the materials
general customers = it is a rip-off.

His asking is simple... You can give the copy or not? Otherwise, nobody needs to preach about PADI policy and law, etc.....

 

[latitude]

PADI's mistake is selling the book seperately... They should wrap the cost of the books into their certification fees and give the books away for "free" and avoid all this bickering...

Copyright laws are kind of funny (I'm a software guy and that's my reference - sorry if paper materials are different-maybe someone knows better) in that the author can specify ANYTHING they want in the contract. "You can only read this book once then you need to pay me more money if you want to read it again" would be totally legal (although ridiculous to try and sell). The copyright is available for you review before you purchase and you can choose not to buy if you don't like the terms - that's the software companies thinking.

Does it suck for the consumer? Sometimes, well yes, it does - but that's the law. PADI said you have to turn in the completed knowledge reviews on the original pages and that duplication is not permitted. You agreed to those terms when you bought the book/signed up for the class. If you're doing other, you're breaking the law and so are the dive shops allowing people to do it. Like the others have said, $30 isn't that much over a diving career. Stop being so cheap and do the legal and ethical thing and buy the book. You're asking people to break the law by giving you copies. :14:

By the way... Enjoy your diving and welcome to the world of SCUBA!!!

 

[in_cavediver]

Actually, that's exactly what I'm saying for three reasons.

1. The book is incomplete and the knowledge reviews are an important part of the book and its purpose.

Debateable at best. These have nothing to do with content. They are they as a tool to verify student understanding and provide a record of that.

2. Those books are supposed to remain with the original student, so his having the book means another diver does not.

I still have my OW book. Its pretty useless to me know as if I need to go back and reference something, I have many other, far more complete books than that one.

3. Those pages are copyrighted material. I realize a lot of people don't understand the nature of intellectual property, but PADI made an investment in creating that and they have a right to earn a return on it.

Agreed. Photocopies are illegal here. Hand written answers to the questions are not.

Do I believe it is about money? Sure. But it's about money on both sides. On one side a company invested in creating a product and wants a return for their investment. On the other side someone is trying to avoid paying for something. So, yes, it is certainly about money.

I also stand by my eariler point, that not wanting to invest in something as inexpensive as a new book raises questions about what other more expensive equipment someone would decide not to invest in.

It is about the money and how its applied. Most of us do not have unlimited discretionary income. This cost may be minor but then again, a 40-50 dollar crew pack is the cost of a mask, wetsuit booties, a charter fee, etc. Think of where the saved dollars might have been applied.

Mike

 

[Scuby Dooby]

You agreed to those terms when you bought the book/signed up for the class. If you're doing other, you're breaking the law and so are the dive shops allowing people to do it. Like the others have said, $30 isn't that much over a diving career. Stop being so cheap and do the legal and ethical thing and buy the book. You're asking people to break the law by giving you copies. :14:

By the way... Enjoy your diving and welcome to the world of SCUBA!!!

Did any of the PADI copyright supporters go to University? In most educational settings you are graded by your exam or some other measure of your learning the concepts put forward - not by purchasing a a book so the publisher can make some cash. Univerisities don't ask us where we got our books, in the late 80s my univeristy sold used text books alongside new ones at their own bookstore, obviously these were also copywrited material. Not sure whether they are still sold on campus or not but take a look at all the used books you can buy at amazon,etc.

For PADI to tell me that I have to go out and buy a whole new 'text book' (written at a 6th grade reading level) because it would be too dangerous for my son to use the one that i completed in an earlier course is absolutely ridiculous. PADI is going to have to come up with a much better excuse than that before I'll shell out the extra cash!

And by the way, I'll take the exta $30 and do a days worth of resort diving in the philippines thanks - not because I'm cheap and unsafe, but because I'm frugal and see no need to buy into a ripoff!

Have a great dive guys & gals

 

[matts1w]

Just curious-

How many people would feel different if it were your material, music, software, writing, etc....? Not as in your copy of the book, but as in the material you published, created, and marketed. So maybe it is only $20 bucks to you, but if a thousand people did it would be a different story.

Do you people think it is alright to use Limewire, the old Napster, etc....?

 

[Dive-aholic]

PADI's mistake is selling the book seperately... They should wrap the cost of the books into their certification fees and give the books away for "free" and avoid all this bickering...

Some LDSs do just that. But it's an individual thing. Others think that makes the cost of the class look like it's too much (probably because the LDS down the street doesn't) and won't package the course and materials.

It's kind of like Western Tire Centers - they advertise their tire prices to include everything, balancing, mounting, etc. But if you go to Big O, you pay extra for all that necessary stuff. It's just a difference in marketing.