Pending changes for certifications required for JDC dives

[Rob9876]

Why not just make the classes free; wouldn't that be even better?

Why do you think that the training material and instructor time ought to be devalued even more than it is?
The problem is the classes already do not cost enough to pay their way, so the whole system is sliding toward mediocrity or worse.

I did not say make classes free, set your pricing as you wish. But having a separate class for Nitrox is really reaching -- so rather than a "soft" AOW segment like Dive Against Debris, Underwater Naturalist, Fish ID, or Photography, instead EANx could be sufficiently covered as 20% of AOW.

I've said it before, the current PADI EANx text has more fluff than a freshman term paper (not to mention so many errors in the materials when I took it). There's about 10 minutes worth of material that recreational divers need to know, plus tank analysis demonstration then student does analysis. And while I kind of like the tables, I don't use them -- they seem headed to the pile with slide rulers and 8-tracks.

 

[soduh]

I know at least at my local dive shop when I was inquiring about advanced classes the instructor said if we were interested in Nitrox certification that he would throw it in with our Advanced, so I think things are definitely moving in the direction of it being included.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Thinking about this topic a bit more, I am honestly surprised that all of the Jupiter boats don't already require at least AOW. As several folks have pointed out, there really are no entry level/OW dive sites off Jupiter that are above 60' max depth. All of them are in the AOW depth range of 60'+, even up on top of the reef. For the Palm Beach boats, the Breakers sites are all in the OW range, but I can see why some are moving to require AOW for their deeper sites there as well. Given that several are making this change at once, I suspect it is liability insurance renewal driven as @CosbySweater suggested.

 

[OMyMyOHellYes]

They require deep and navigation as two of the three segments (at least PADI - don't know about others). Nitrox would likely be a good mandatory third "specialty" adventure portion and make it part of the OW cert card.

Having said that, in my deck of C cards, only two of them are actual certification cards: OW & EANx.

Personally, I wish we'd just do away with cards for each cert and list all of them from a single agency on a single card.

OMMOHY

 

[CosbySweater]

Thinking about this topic a bit more, I am honestly surprised that all of the Jupiter boats don't already require at least AOW. As several folks have pointed out, there really are no entry level/OW dive sites off Jupiter that are above 60' max depth. All of them are in the AOW depth range of 60'+, even up on top of the reef. For the Palm Beach boats, the Breakers sites are all in the OW range, but I can see why some are moving to require AOW for their deeper sites there as well. Given that several are making this change at once, I suspect it is liability insurance renewal driven as @CosbySweater suggested.

On top of that, Jupiter conditions are highly variable both above and below the surface and live boat diving adds another layer of complexity (at least when it comes to getting off and on the boat).

I don’t know many OW divers (unless they were trained here) who can safely free ascend from 70 feet, shoot an SMB from the safety stop and hang out on the surface for several minutes in rough seas without freaking out. That’s a common reality diving in Jupiter. An AOW requirement makes sense.

 

[scubadada]

Thinking about this topic a bit more, I am honestly surprised that all of the Jupiter boats don't already require at least AOW. As several folks have pointed out, there really are no entry level/OW dive sites off Jupiter that are above 60' max depth. All of them are in the AOW depth range of 60'+, even up on top of the reef. For the Palm Beach boats, the Breakers sites are all in the OW range, but I can see why some are moving to require AOW for their deeper sites there as well. Given that several are making this change at once, I suspect it is liability insurance renewal driven as @CosbySweater suggested.

After April 1, nitrox will be required on all dives with JDC. AOW will be required on all dives with the exception of the 2 tank reef dives.

The post by @Divin'Papaw got me thinking about the 2 tank reef dives. I did 24 Jupiter reef dives in 2022 with JDC. My average maximum depth was 78 ft (68-88). The average depth was 63 ft (58-69). JDC allows a 45 min bottom time, dive time is usually 52-53 min. Diving 36%, the NDL is never limiting for me, but I dive one computer running DSAT and one computer running Buhlmann with a GF high of 95. My lowest 1st dive NDLs were 25-30 min and 2nd dive NDLs 10-15 min. That may work out differently for a diver using a computer with a more conservative decompression algorithm, especially on the repetitive dive. To complete these dives using an AL80 one should have an RMV in the low 0.4s cu ft/min. Using a HP steel 100, a RMV in the mid 0.5s would due. To put these RMVs in perspective, in a group of relatively experienced divers, the mid 0.5s is about average and the low 0.4s is significantly better than average Average Gas Consumption Of course, you can always ascend from these dives as dictated by your own NDL or gas supply

So, the reef dives in Jupiter are far from a pushover. In addition, see the post from @CosbySweater regarding other significant factors affecting these dives.

 

[Johnoly]

...especially on the repetitive dive.

Jupiter is alot more hardcore than other spots.... deeper, faster, & shark-ier.
We also don't do 60 minute surface intervals.
Grab some water, Change your tank over and you're getting dropped back in the pool.

 

[scubadada]

Jupiter is alot more hardcore than other spots.... deeper, faster, & shark-ier.
We also don't do 60 minute surface intervals.
Grab some water, Change your tank over and you're getting dropped back in the pool.

Thanks, I forgot to mention that JDC's SI is 45 min, contributes to the 2nd dive NDL

 

[100days-a-year]

I never got the AOW as it wasn't required. I went OW, nitrox, tech nitrox, deep air , full trimix. Never got rescue either.
One of the reasons I always avoided cattle boats was silliness like this.
Someone certified overseas or long ago almost certainly had more instruction than some 50 dive wunderkinder who theoretically is more qualified.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I never got the AOW as it wasn't required. I went OW, nitrox, tech nitrox, deep air , full trimix. Never got rescue either.
One of the reasons I always avoided cattle boats was silliness like this.
Someone certified overseas or long ago almost certainly had more instruction than some 50 dive wunderkinder who theoretically is more qualified.

True … but insurance companies don’t give a bleep. All they care about is how things look in court. To an uneducated member of a jury certification cards equals competence.