Place of dive tables in modern diving

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CAPTAIN SINBAD

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In the spirit on not hijacking another thread I thought I should take start this discussion from a fresh page. The event that I am describing below is true though my memory of depth and bottom time numbers that I state below may be off since this happened in 2008 and I was a new diver.

I got certified to dive in the year 2004. Dive computers were not very common and my whole class was trained to dive using dive tables. Everyone in the class knew the set point of 60 by 60. For the first dive of the day, 60/60 would be the start of our No decompression limit calculations. We knew that if the dive depth had not exceeded 60 feet then our bottom time could easily be 60 minutes. It was really that simple! Then, for 70 feet we would have a bottom time of 50 and for 80 it would be 40. The above depth and time limits were ingrained into our minds and we would remember them like we would remember our mothers name. This meant that for the first dive of the day, no one needed to even look at tables. We knew the available dive time for each depth from pure memory. It was for the second dive that dive tables were pulled out and and adjusted no-decompression limit were read, noted down on a slate and then we jumped in.

This was diving for me in the early 2000s. Then I stayed out of water for many years until I returned back to diving in 2008. Between the years of 2004 to 2008 the computer revolution happened and dive computers went from being a luxury item to a mandatory item on many dive operations. Upon my return to diving, I signed up to dive a wreck which was resting at 130 feet while the top was 50'ish. The dive operation insisted that since this wreck has many decks and different people are interested in exploring different depths, everyone should have a dive computer. I had not used a dive computer up until then and did not feel the need for it but the dive operator said that computers are mandatory on this dive. I ended up renting one.

This was the second charter of the day and the dive computer that I was given had already been used by a diver who was on the first charter and had done two dives on the same wreck with that computer. The dive operator gave me the computer without resetting it and I ended up wearing a computer that believed that the dive I was about to do would be my THIRD DIVE of the day. I was told by the dive operator that the computer will activate itself at 5 feet depth so just go and dive mate! When we splashed and I reached the top of the wreck at 60, I knew from the table ingrained in my memory that I should have 60 minutes at least. The computer was giving much less than that. I knew right away that this device is dead wrong but I did not know why. There were two things about the computer that were correct though. Depth and bottom time. As a table diver, that is all I needed to complete the dive. During the dive, I exceeded the projected no decompression limit which would have applied to the fellow who wore the computer before me. I ignored the warnings and proceeded to dive my no decompression limit from memory. When I surfaced, all alarms were going off and I knew that they were wrong. The dive boat went into panic mode because a diver just surfaced with warnings beeping on the computer!

The dive master looked at the computer and said that I had gone deep into decompression and I needed to be checked for symptoms. He started to run a decompression diagnosis on me while the deck hand was preparing to put me on 100% oxygen. I tried to explain to them that I can’t be in decompression because my depth was less than 70 and my bottom time was less than 50. Any diver knowing tables would know that the numbers I am stating mean that I was safe but behold ... the computer revolution had started and the age of electronic stupidity had begun. In this age it was not only possible to become a certified diver without knowing dive tables but was also possible to become a divemaster and lead dives without knowing depth and table limits. When computer said you were surfaced while in deco, all dive theory and basic common sense was abandoned and 100 percent oxygen was to be given.

Fortunately, other people began to surface from the dive. One of these was a dinosaur from the pre-historic era. He had been diving since the earth was very young and there were no dive computers. He saw all the chaos and asked me two questions. "How deep were you?" and "what was your bottom time?" I was relieved to see that someone spoke the same language instead of "What is your computer saying?". He told the DM that there must be something wrong with the computer because 70 feet and less than 50 minutes is really not an emergency. He kept asking me “Are you sure about your max depth and bottom time?” I told him yes. Then they all began to fiddle with the computer and it turned out that I was right and the computer was wrong! Since data from the previous dive had not been deleted, the computer calculated it to be my "third dive." The guy before me had taken the computer really really deep so the computer was seriously freaking out on this “third dive.” The confusion did not last very long and life went back to normal but had the dinosaur from the prehistoric age not emerged from the ocean then I this “lets follow the computer crowd" would have put me on pure oxygen or I would be getting evacuated by a helicopter to the nearest decompression chamber.

Today there are agencies that train you to dive on computers from day one and they are proud of it. It is seen as a sign of embracing tomorrow and being progressive. The questions is not whether computers are good or bad but whether we are using the computer to advance our thought or whether we are using it to think for us? Furthermore what is wrong in using a multiple tool approach to planning dives? Diving courses of today are loaded with so much nonsense (boat dive specialty, shore dive specialty, put your mask on specialty, take your own fins off specialty) what is wrong with creating divers who are as proficient on tables as they are on computers?

Thoughts?
 
I haven't been following whatever other thread you referred to, but that's a great story. Is anyone who teaches computer diving today really advocating doing so without ALSO ingraining in the student a general sense of what numbers to expect from the computer, like your (as I was taught to call it) "Rule of 120"? I would think today's educational tools include simulations, so the student can get a feel for that Rule of 120. I would hope every instructor today teaches to use your brain as a sanity check on the computer's results.
 
In the spirit on not hijacking another thread I thought I should take start this discussion from a fresh page. The event that I am describing below is true though my memory of depth and bottom time numbers that I state below may be off since this happened in 2008 and I was a new diver.

I got certified to dive in the year 2004. Dive computers were not very common and my whole class was trained to dive using dive tables. Everyone in the class knew the set point of 60 by 60. For the first dive of the day, 60/60 would be the start of our No decompression limit calculations. We knew that if the dive depth had not exceeded 60 feet then our bottom time could easily be 60 minutes. It was really that simple! Then, for 70 feet we would have a bottom time of 50 and for 80 it would be 40. The above depth and time limits were ingrained into our minds and we would remember them like we would remember our mothers name. This meant that for the first dive of the day, no one needed to even look at tables. We knew the available dive time for each depth from pure memory. It was for the second dive that dive tables were pulled out and and adjusted no-decompression limit were read, noted down on a slate and then we jumped in.

This was diving for me in the early 2000s. Then I stayed out of water for many years until I returned back to diving in 2008. Between the years of 2004 to 2008 the computer revolution happened and dive computers went from being a luxury item to a mandatory item on many dive operations. Upon my return to diving, I signed up to dive a wreck which was resting at 130 feet while the top was 50'ish. The dive operation insisted that since this wreck has many decks and different people are interested in exploring different depths, everyone should have a dive computer. I had not used a dive computer up until then and did not feel the need for it but the dive operator said that computers are mandatory on this dive. I ended up renting one.

This was the second charter of the day and the dive computer that I was given had already been used by a diver who was on the first charter and had done two dives on the same wreck with that computer. The dive operator gave me the computer without resetting it and I ended up wearing a computer that believed that the dive I was about to do would be my THIRD DIVE of the day. I was told by the dive operator that the computer will activate itself at 5 feet depth so just go and dive mate! When we splashed and I reached the top of the wreck at 60, I knew from the table ingrained in my memory that I should have 60 minutes at least. The computer was giving much less than that. I knew right away that this device is dead wrong but I did not know why. There were two things about the computer that were correct though. Depth and bottom time. As a table diver, that is all I needed to complete the dive. During the dive, I exceeded the projected no decompression limit which would have applied to the fellow who wore the computer before me. I ignored the warnings and proceeded to dive my no decompression limit from memory. When I surfaced, all alarms were going off and I knew that they were wrong. The dive boat went into panic mode because a diver just surfaced with warnings beeping on the computer!

The dive master looked at the computer and said that I had gone deep into decompression and I needed to be checked for symptoms. He started to run a decompression diagnosis on me while the deck hand was preparing to put me on 100% oxygen. I tried to explain to them that I can’t be in decompression because my depth was less than 70 and my bottom time was less than 50. Any diver knowing tables would know that the numbers I am stating mean that I was safe but behold ... the computer revolution had started and the age of electronic stupidity had begun. In this age it was not only possible to become a certified diver without knowing dive tables but was also possible to become a divemaster and lead dives without knowing depth and table limits. When computer said you were surfaced while in deco, all dive theory and basic common sense was abandoned and 100 percent oxygen was to be given.

Fortunately, other people began to surface from the dive. One of these was a dinosaur from the pre-historic era. He had been diving since the earth was very young and there were no dive computers. He saw all the chaos and asked me two questions. "How deep were you?" and "what was your bottom time?" I was relieved to see that someone spoke the same language instead of "What is your computer saying?". He told the DM that there must be something wrong with the computer because 70 feet and less than 50 minutes is really not an emergency. He kept asking me “Are you sure about your max depth and bottom time?” I told him yes. Then they all began to fiddle with the computer and it turned out that I was right and the computer was wrong! Since data from the previous dive had not been deleted, the computer calculated it to be my "third dive." The guy before me had taken the computer really really deep so the computer was seriously freaking out on this “third dive.” The confusion did not last very long and life went back to normal but had the dinosaur from the prehistoric age not emerged from the ocean then I this “lets follow the computer crowd" would have put me on pure oxygen or I would be getting evacuated by a helicopter to the nearest decompression chamber.

Today there are agencies that train you to dive on computers from day one and they are proud of it. It is seen as a sign of embracing tomorrow and being progressive. The questions is not whether computers are good or bad but whether we are using the computer to advance our thought or whether we are using it to think for us? Furthermore what is wrong in using a multiple tool approach to planning dives? Diving courses of today are loaded with so much nonsense (boat dive specialty, shore dive specialty, put your mask on specialty, take your own fins off specialty) what is wrong with creating divers who are as proficient on tables as they are on computers?

Thoughts?
Of course, you were quite wrong in your thinking: those old Navy tables that gave you the rule of 120 (for depths between 50-90 ft) had been replaced, and a rule of 110 would have been wiser. And if you look at dive computers of that day, a rule of 105 might have been even better. So you and your dinosaur friend were both putting you in jeopardy.

My point: simple rules change too.....you've got to keep up with the times. Nostalgia is just not what it used to be.
 
I use both computers and tables. The former is rarely used since most of my dives are very shallow. Almost all my dives--deep or shallow-- are square profiles, as I am almost always on the bottom hunting for shells. Tables make sense, though they are pretty useless if you are doing a true multi-level dive.
On a square profile, you do have a little conservatism using tables, since you probably are swimming a few feet above your max depth (when you grab a shell). I never hear that mentioned. You don't have that with the DC, since it tells your exact (theoretical of course) bottom time remaining. Unless you set it to conservative mode.
 
I use the tables religiously, with a computer back-up. I've been using them for decades. Not being a total fool, I never push to the edge of table limits, or even come especially close. Generally I plan at a maximum of about 75% of the time at depth that the tables specify. Instead of 60 minutes at 60 feet I'd never exceed 45 minutes at that depth, and generally would plan for 40 minutes. I'm especially careful with sawtooth dive profiles. My computer is fun to look at when doing safety stops. I have serious reservations about trusting anything that runs on a couple of batteries, so I also would never consider using anything other than a directly connected pressure gauge. I take good care of my equipment, and in 50 years I've never had a problem.
 
It goes both ways. I have heard of a number of aircraft accidents where the pilot quit believing his instruments and died as a result. Given all my dives are seriously multilevel. I will believe the computers. (There are 2). They are just a smarter form of tables. I understand how they work. Some dives I know I will never hit NDL so it is just a back to the boat timer. The deeper the dive the more closely I watch the computer. Both because it is easier to get past NDL and also because I have less trust in my between the ears biochemical computer.

The bottom may be at 80ft but look at the nudibranch in the washout near the bow. Say I just spent a few minutes at 90 ft. Needs to be accounted for without claiming 30 minutes at 90ft.
 
<Conversational Tone>

I understand your frustration, but technology moves on and so does the industry. You could have written a similar post about "doesn't anyone train to buddy breathe anymore, and why do we need these extra regulators". Or "What's with these silly buoyancy compensators? Why don't they still teach everyone to use horse collars?"

There are two issues in your story that are the real root of the problem:

1. The dive boat / personnel were negligent when they loaned you the computer, and ignorant of how to properly use one, so they fell back onto what they knew.

2. Had you been properly trained you would have never encountered this issue, or at least discovered it before splashing. First, I believe it is now standard teaching (instructors out there, please confirm) that you NEVER share dive computers. This is essentially what you did. Second, you didn't plan your second dive using the computer. If you had, you would have seen the abnormally low deco time, and investigated.

But, that not withstanding, you did have a basic understanding and recollection of typical dive times/depths, otherwise you would not have called 'foul' when done. How does a diver get that knowledge today? Is it just experience, or is there something missing from OW training?

I took my OW class around the same time you did, and we used tables. But, I bought a computer soon afterward, and I am sorry to say I don't recall any 'rules of thumb' and for sure couldn't use dive tables if needed. Actually, I've just realized I'm quite a hypocrite, since I've drilled my son in his multiplication tables, refusing him a calculator. Yet I've robbed myself of the same skill when it comes to diving.

Cheers
 
I was certified in 2013, so my information may not be valid, but looking at your story, it seems to me that the Dive Op, broke one of the Diving rules when diving with a computer. The big one being never dive on someone else's computer.

Although this is no fault of your own, I might consider checking things out before you go to use a rented computer - to avoid situations like this in the future. It also brings in the importance of having something like this - that is your own.

Secondly, when I was certified, I got trained on PADI's electronic device that had the tables in it (ERPDML??), but I also had a computer book, so I guess I got the best of both worlds....
 
Tursiops is right in the fact that modern tables have evolved (PDIC alowing 51 minutes at 60ft) so it would be good to learn the "110" rule instead. However unless you are diving to max depth and staying that deep for the entire dive, the 120 rule wouldnt be too bad. Especially if you performed a safety stop.
I agree though that even though computers are great (i dive with one and love it), there is no substitute for good understanding. When i'm teaching, we use tables and become proficient, then computers are allowed after they're certified. Same logic applied as learning multiplication and division even though we have calculators.
I personally keep tables handy to help make a general plan for the day, as well as backup in the case of computer failure.
 
1. Check what the dive op requires before boarding their boat
2. For the dive op to give you a used computer with two dives on it is highly incompetent.
3. For the crew to not be able to tell that you could not have been in that much trouble given dive 1 is also not a sign of competence.
4. If I am diving the one piece of equipment that I always bring, no matter what else I rent, are my own computers that I know how to read and use including "incidental deco"
 
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