Please help me with my buoyancy :)

[Storm]

and this is the reason why I've bought all the necessary equipment I can buy besides a steel tank and weights.

Hang fire a moment here. You bought all your gear except the tank and weights...including your wetsuit; a 7mm with a 5 mil over vest. Does the vest also have a 5 mil hood? How thick are your gloves and booties. You DO realize that the new neoprene takes a while to "crush in" and until that point it's slightly more buoyant than that tired old rental junk you used...right?

Secondly, by my calculations for fresh water;
7 mm suit complete = 10% body weight + 3-5 lbs for empty tank = 17 LB
Then add factor for FSW 4lbs = 21 lbs; now this is a generality and based on "worked in" gear so to start add an extra pound or two.

Total weight should = 22 lbs.

Now for the next two dives...FORGET ABOUT TRIM. We'll come to that later...lets start with just getting down first. Get yourself an experienced buddy (preferably a DM or DI), set a date to do buoyancy only dives. (Forget about looking at fish or practicing S-drills etc...You’re here to get your weighting dialled in. Rent two tanks...both AL80s for that day. Keep one tank at 3000, but blow the other tank down to 500. (It’s a minor cost to get your weighting dialled in. MAKE SURE YOUR AT A SITE WITH NO MORE THAN 25 FEET of depth...again if possible have your buddy be a DM or DI.

Start with the empty tank. Place all but the empty tank compensation ( 4 lbs) on your weight belt. (Put the other 4 lbs--2lbs per pocket) in your BC pockets. If, when holding a full breath, and with the empty tank, and completely empty BC, you float at eye level in the water, you're properly weighted. If you sink like a rock...which you may...hand off 2lbs to your buddy and try again. If you still sink...hand off the other 2 lbs. Keep doing this until you are dialled in for weight. If you do not sink at all at full weight, make sure you BC is empty, and if so, have your buddy hand you 2 lbs. Keep doing this until you float at eye level on the surface woth an empty BC and holding a full breath.

Change out to a full tank.

Now...the descent.... your suit will be a bit more buoyant until you break it in. So be patient. You KNOW you're weighted properly since you've done your buoyancy check with an empty tank.

Now before you try your fist decent...take a few moments on the surface, and relax. See yourself gently floating down, calmly, and easily...slow your breathing down. Get comfortable. Then, when you fully relaxed, with your reg in your mouth, empty your BC, and exhale fully. Should you need to breathe in the first four feet of your descent, do so every slightly...just enough to keep you comfortable but not so much you fill your lungs entirely as this will cause you to go positive.

Once you pass below six feet, your brand new suit will start to compress and make it easier for your descent. Do not worry bout hitting the bottom, or getting into a horizontal position...we're working on weighting and descents...not trim and full buoyancy control. We'll task load controlled descents and buoyancy control after you're able to deflate and descend at will.

As you descend remember to equalize your ears.

Once you’re able to descend at will, try a few fin pivots, or basic buoyancy skills then slowly and in a controlled manner ascend and ry you descent again. Once you’ve got the descent at will under control it will be time to work on your trim…(.i.e. weight placement so you are able to maintain a horizontal position), and you can start to work on buoyancy control.

One last thing…find a REALLY GOOD DI in your area and take the PPB course. It will help.

This is the kind of stuff my wife and I learnead a few weeks ago on a PPB course.

Good luck.

 

[TSandM]

im_a_piranha, there are a bunch of SB members in your area, and some very fine divers among them. Look at some of the SoCal forum threads . . . I'm sure there are some good divers who would be happy to do a dive or two with you and help you get this all sorted out.

 

[onfloat]

You mention ankle weights. That could be what is making you tired and feel like your dragging yourself when you swim. That's adding extra work to your kick. That weight is at the end of a long lever and your moving it 1 foot or better with each kick. It's like tying up your motor.

 

[Nailer99]

As someone who struggled with this at first, I'll just add a couple things. Lotsa good advice so far, but:

1- It gets much easier the more you dive. You'll figure it out by trying different things. Dive a lot, weekly, or more often if you can.

2- I dove overweighted at first, and still had trouble descending. Learn to relax completely as you go under- I, and many new divers, subconsciously struggled to stay on the surface even as I was trying to descend. Try crossing your ankles as you let air out of your BCD to keep from finning.

3- Once you get under- try to limit your use of the inflator/deflator. I used mine like a damn elevator button at first; one to go up, and the other to go down. As a result, I alternated between crashing into the bottom and starting to shoot up. Less is more- seek the neutral buoyancy. Really work on this. It all becomes much easier after a while.

Good luck, and let us know how it's going!

 

[im_a_piranha]

All this advice is so awesome I'd definitely like to see if someone can help me out in my area (Orange County) to figure out my buoyancy... I've been actually thinking of just taking my AOW so I include that as one of my dives. Does anyone know of a good instructor/lds here?

And for sure, I'd like to keep diving so I'm also looking for a club. I'm thinking of trying out South Coast Divers or other clubs if anyone knows of any good ones around the area.

Angelie

 

[BarryNL]

So here goes my question. I'm a girl, 5'4", 122lbs. I would say that I'm faily athletic but of course still has a normal girl's physique (chest, hips...whatever you call them). Anyway, I've done 5 dives so far and I know I've been overweighted in every single one of them and when I cut down on the weight, I cannot sink! Here's the details, maybe you can help me. Oh, and before I forget, I dove in Catalina California (Cold!).

There's only two things you need to do to get good bouyancy control:

1) Get the right weighting.
2) Do 20-30 hours of diving.

Point 1) is easy enough. At the end of a dive do a bouyancy check. With about 50bar/750psi left in your tank you should float at eye level at the surface while holding a normal breath with your BCD empty. With this weighting, sinking with a full tank should be easy - just empty your BCD and breathe out.

 

[limeyx]

Hang fire a moment here. You bought all your gear except the tank and weights...including your wetsuit; a 7mm with a 5 mil over vest. Does the vest also have a 5 mil hood? How thick are your gloves and booties. You DO realize that the new neoprene takes a while to "crush in" and until that point it's slightly more buoyant than that tired old rental junk you used...right?

Secondly, by my calculations for fresh water;
7 mm suit complete = 10% body weight + 3-5 lbs for empty tank = 17 LB
Then add factor for FSW 4lbs = 21 lbs; now this is a generality and based on "worked in" gear so to start add an extra pound or two.
...
Good luck.

I dont think you need to add the 3-5 pounds for an empty Steel tank (which she is using, just for AL)

 

[limeyx]

im_a_piranha, there are a bunch of SB members in your area, and some very fine divers among them. Look at some of the SoCal forum threads . . . I'm sure there are some good divers who would be happy to do a dive or two with you and help you get this all sorted out.

We actually have a skills session planned for 8/30 at redondo beach, and piranha is welcome to come along.

I can offer to help out but I am not an instructor, so take my "help" for what it's worth

I'll also probably be at redondo next wed, and am glad to help out then too.

(Piranha -- PM me if you want to meet up and see if I can be any help)

For reference, I'm about 150 pounds and use a full 7MM suit and a 2MM vest with hood.
I use about 14 pounds of weight with steel tank (8 on the belt and 6 on my backplate) plus some other "misc" stuff that probably weighs a couple of pounds. I can probably drop 2 pounds honestly from that too.

Even 20 sounds like a lot in this case.

 

[TxHockeyGuy]

I dont think you need to add the 3-5 pounds for an empty Steel tank (which she is using, just for AL)

Air has weight. It doesn't matter if you are using Aluminum or Steel, you will lose weight during the dive and as such you must compensate for it. Take a look at the bottom of this page:

http://www.njscuba.net/gear/eqpt_05_tanks.html

I have no affiliation with them, they just showed up first on my google search. They show the weight of an empty and full tank, as well as the buoyancy characteristics. I guess this is one reason why I have never understood why everyone is so crazy about steel tanks, you're just moving the weight from your belt to your tank is all. Of course I've never dove one so I can't speak too intelligently on the subject but that is a discussion best left for another thread.

As for the buoyancy problems. What you're going through is normal. Is there any place you can dive nearby, even a pool, that is warm water? It is easier to learn buoyancy when you're not dealing with so much thermal protection. If that is an option I'd go for that, if not I'd try to find an experienced diver (in my opinion it doesn't need to be a DM or DI) who is willing to work with you. It just takes time.

 

[Storm]

I dont think you need to add the 3-5 pounds for an empty Steel tank (which she is using, just for AL)

All the steel tanks weighting will do is reduce the amount of lead on the belt. As was pointed out, compressed air has weight, and one the air is gone from the tank; so is the weight hence the compensating weight on either the tank bands or on the belt.

All this advice is so awesome I'd definitely like to see if someone can help me out in my area (Orange County) to figure out my buoyancy... I've been actually thinking of just taking my AOW so I include that as one of my dives. Does anyone know of a good instructor/lds here?

And for sure, I'd like to keep diving so I'm also looking for a club. I'm thinking of trying out South Coast Divers or other clubs if anyone knows of any good ones around the area.

Angelie

Angelie

I would not advise a jump directly into the AOW just for the one PPB dive.... (if it even makes it into your AOW course to begin with). The night, deep and nav dives are mandatory subject dives, the other two are usually by class vote, or in some cases decided by the DI.

More importantly is the fact that the deep dive IS mandatory, and you'll need your buoyancy dialled in a bit better for this dive. Once you get down to the 100 foot range, your going to want real good control of your buoyancy. You will use more air for both breathing and in your BC for buoyancy, and also to compensate for the crushing of neoprene. Also if your trim is not set properly, you’ll end up using more air to move around.

Just take your time, and go diving. Find those folks in your area, and just get wet.
You'll find as you get more comfortable, you'll start to shed some weight, until you are carrying just enough to sink you and your gear.

And that leads us to the next level...trim. Once you've got the weighting dialled in, you're going to want to have somebody take a really detailed look at how you are positioned in the water. If you're trimmed properly, you'll have a nice flat horizontal profile, and will be streamlined. You'll move through the water better and use less gas. If you're head up, you may need to move the tank up a bit or add a trim ba and weight to your top tank band. If you head down, the opposite may be needed.

You mentioned using ankle weights. These may or may not be necessary. If your trimmed so your too head down, moving you tank back a bit, will bring your head up, and may also negate the need for the ankle weights.


You’re having the same issues my wife had, and with practice you can get it dialled in.

Safe Dives.

Not sure if you mentioned it, but I'll ask anyways, can you tell me what type of BC, you are using?