Procedure for vomiting

[danvolker]

For placebo effect to have any relevance, the person experiencing it would NEED to BELIEVE they would get the desired results, prior to taking the placebo.

If the results are entirely unexpected, and are repeated constantly....and the person tries to figure out what the change was that has caused this unexpected effect... I am inclined to believe this is a real effect, not placebo

I am NOT saying this is a panacea for sea sickness....If before she got sick in 3 foot seas, now maybe she would be OK in 5 foot seas, but if ut got to 7 or bigger, she would be feeding the fishes without the triptone.
We have a lot of days in Palm Beach where it is from flat, to 2 feet, or from 3 to 4 feet....15 years ago, the 4 foot stuff might have bothered me some days....now it never would. But like I said, if I am pretty sure I will be out for a day in huge seas throwing the boat all over the place--the 7 to 10 foot stuff, then I am taking Triptone--"just-in-case" if way better than guessing wrong

I like the irrigating for normal days, and avoiding the triptone then, because the drug tends to make you sleepy and useless after the dive is over--so the rest of the day is pretty well shot if you used the sea-sickness meds..during it does not bother me to take triptone--I think you are excited enough about diving that you don't feel the drowsiness.


And of course, I expect this will work on people that get sea-sick for the inflammation in the middle ear issue, or pressure on the middle ear from sinuses..... I think a doctor could chime in here, but I am pretty sure the sinuses can exert pressure on the middle ear--the nerves in there can be effected.


On a tangent, I took some Acrobatic flying lessons one time... Barrel Rolls I could have done all day , but after I did 3 loop de loops, I felt like some big metal bar had just shoved something into my brain stem, and suddenly I was feeling like projectile vomiting. My Brother Rick, who is actually one of the top Acrobatic Pilots in the US, insists that you would condition yourself to this over repeated acrobatic sessions--and that he himself got quite ill the first few times he did loops. The airsickness I got from my loops, did not go away fast like on a dive trip, where a half hour back on land and you are feeling almost normal....after the loops, it was like my middle ear had been bruised, and it literally took all day to feel almost ok.... So maybe you need the repeated bruisings, to build up the nerve equivalent of scar tissue, or this in some way begins to desensitize you. Here is Rick doing some stuff I was unable to get desensitized to : http://rvairshows.com/video.html [video=vimeo;11715753]http://vimeo.com/11715753#[/video]

 

[tracydr]

Peter, this is about Emily. She can get seasick any time we dive -- or just any time. She has gotten seasick from going around in a parking garage! Given that its so common for her, it's surprising that she is still up for diving / boating at all.

She takes meds every time we dive - or even to drive long distances. If we're going on a long boat trip she'll use the behind-the-ear patch, otherwise she'll take Dramamine or the like.

- Bill

Make sure she starts the meds well before the dive trip. The patch should go on the night before. Add some ginger tea in the morning, made with fresh grated ginger. Just hot water and ginger. stay with a light breakfast and avoid any spicy or acidic foods like coffee or black tea. She can also chew some candied or pickled ginger.
Try not to get overheated on the boat and make sure to breathe fresh air. Look at the horizon.
Sounds like she's already gotten great advise already on how to puke in the regulator.

---------- Post added March 23rd, 2013 at 08:57 AM ----------

It's the inner ear that can have some effect on nausea.

 

[brrrandi]

The accidental solution I found was nasal irrigation....
If I know I am going out in stupidly rough waves, then I will take Triptone an hour or two prior to diving.....

I found this thread really interesting. I, like the wife mentioned by the original poster, also suffer severely from seasickness, airsickness, car sickness... anywhere is possible. I also have found that vertigo and/or severe sinus pressure around my ears causes the same nausea and, ultimately, puke-fests. Ugh.

I'm definitely going to try the nasal irrigation (hell it can't hurt, right?). Can you tell me about the triptone? I've tried dramamine, bonine, scop patch and puked after each and every one of them. Also, insert zombie effect with the first two (where I can't keep my eyes open for more than 5 minutes) and cotton mouth with the last one. I wouldn't mind any of these side effects if their primary mission was met. But alas, still the puking.

I'm open to any solutions anyone could offer. Ginger doesn't seem to help me either

 

[danvolker]

I found this thread really interesting. I, like the wife mentioned by the original poster, also suffer severely from seasickness, airsickness, car sickness... anywhere is possible. I also have found that vertigo and/or severe sinus pressure around my ears causes the same nausea and, ultimately, puke-fests. Ugh.

I'm definitely going to try the nasal irrigation (hell it can't hurt, right?). Can you tell me about the triptone? I've tried dramamine, bonine, scop patch and puked after each and every one of them. Also, insert zombie effect with the first two (where I can't keep my eyes open for more than 5 minutes) and cotton mouth with the last one. I wouldn't mind any of these side effects if their primary mission was met. But alas, still the puking.

I'm open to any solutions anyone could offer. Ginger doesn't seem to help me either

Dramamine works a little for me, but not nearly as well as Triptone. Bonine actually MAKES me sea-sick, even if I don't get on a boat!
And as the other poster mentioned, you need to take this an hour or more prior to getting on the boat...take it when the boat is going out the inlet into rough seas, and the sea-sickness meds will make you sick in a few minutes.
If you are on sea sickness meds, and doing ok, but nervous about how long ok will last--because waves are getting bigger, then taking two aspirins could help...but not if you are already throwing up....they would probably be out of you before they could do anything

 

[brrrandi]

I had never heard of triptone, and I thought I'd tried it all. Then found this (thanks google). http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/329071-triptone-2.html

So, if I'm correct,

Triptone = original Dramamine (50 mg

Dimenhydrinate)
Bonine = less drowsy Dramamine (25 mg Meclizine HCl)

​

 

[danvolker]

There must be a different ingredient in the Bonine...It absolutely makes me ill....
Just did a search on a med site:
What is the difference between Dramamine and Bonine?A: Both Dramamine (dimenhydrinate) and Bonine (meclizine) are antihistamines used to treat symptoms of motion sickness including nausea, vomiting, dizziness, and vertigo. Generally, meclizine tends to cause less drowsiness and has longer lasting effects than dimenhydrinate...

So as antihistamine related in some of their effects, this could be a similar issue to the nasal irrigation, in it's decongestant and anti histamine-like effects....

 

[Hockeynut]

If you know you're going to vomit as often as it sounds, why not just play beach volletball instead of going diving?

 

[danvolker]

Back in the days when I used to get sea sick on rough days, I would never let it bother my diving.....you gear up, make your self puke one last time before jumping in, then stay down the max possible, enjoying every minute of it...You aren't thrilled about getting back on the boat, but it is the price of admission to the next dive.....

There are people that get sea sick and collapse on the floor like they are about to die, and remain so pathetic for the rest of the trip they can't even talk to anyone--they just lie there and moan, puke on themselves, and sort of sleep....I never really understood that.....whether they are just big babies, or somehow they feel sea sickness in an entirely different way that we can't even imagine...that kind of person may be better off playing beach VB or golf

 

[brrrandi]

If you know you're going to vomit as often as it sounds, why not just play beach volletball instead of going diving?

Two reasons:

1) It really has less to do with the puking than the general inability to function. I want to be able to dive safely, competently, and without distraction.

2) I dive because I really like diving and because diving and being on the water are innate parts of my profession, so volleyball isn't going to be a good substitute.

It should be a relatively simple malady to prevent and treat, in theory. We've just about cured AIDS (or so I read a week ago). I also understand that over 70% of the general population suffers from motion sickness and over 60% of the Navy's strike-fighter pilots do. Almost all astronauts do. Clearly these folks have to be able to do their jobs safely too, right?

I find I'm generally getting better after about 72 hours of being offshore. However, most dive ops begin well before the 72 hour point. I'm just trying to find a way to get back to coherency and competency faster.

danvolker
I agree that some people must experience it differently. I have a very high tolerance for pain and have more examples of that than I probably should bore you with. But suffice to say, when I get really seasick, I'm pretty much worthless. :baby:​

 

[billt4sf]

It should be a relatively simple malady to prevent and treat, in theory. ... I also understand that over 70% of the general population suffers from motion sickness and over 60% of the Navy's strike-fighter pilots do. Almost all astronauts do.

Dan,

I think those numbers are quite inflated. No way does 70% of the population get seasickness on any regular basis. Just take a quick poll of people on a dive boat in Hawaii, for example. 70% of them are not taking meds or getting seasick. Outside the Golden Gate -- that's a different story.

Also, I do not believe that it is "easy" to treat, because the effect comes from the brain interpreting the balance organs. Different brains have varying sensitivities to the input they are getting from the organs. Apparently some go wild from relatively mild inputs.

I should correct something I said -- I thought that the term "inner ear" was a misnomer. I checked it and those organs are actually part of the inner ear. Sorry about that. Someone who knows anatomy maybe could tell us if there is a physical way for irrigation of the nose to get into the inner ear area where the balance organs are.

I don't think that the placebo effect depends on the person believing it will work. The mere suggestion may be enough.

As far as giving up diving -- yeah, we have certainly thought about it. My wife really enjoys it, as do I, and gets motion sickness from such little things (today she was telling me please don't stop at stop signs so fast!) that it's sort of just part of life for her (and me). She can get it from using the computer too much, from turning around in the kitchen too fast, etc. No doubt also from volleyball, or playing the euphonium. So you got to give her, and people like Dan, credit for persevering! (BTW she drinks home-made ginger tea every day, and we use the meds as needed).

Thanks,

Bill