Actually there are more than 2 sites that are open for diving,and there are more on the horizon through some ongoing hard work of some people. Unfortunately there is no such thing as unowned land,and all the other sinks are located on property that doesn't allow access. I wish changing 10+ years of negative PR and misinformation would allow the gates of Disney World to open up to everybody tomorrow,but it takes time and patience,which many people are short of. I support gaining access through legal means and getting access for everybody. Of course there is civil disobedience and diving regardless of what anybody says. This course gives cave diving a negative view by local governmental officials that we negotiate access with,as well as run ins with local law enforcement,and gear potentially going to impound. There is a social being held at Jackson Blue Oct 13th. Come to this event and meet a few key people in getting access in Wakulla county,your support could be used.
Promise syphon
- Thread starter Springwise
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Actually there are more than 2 sites that are open for diving,and there are more on the horizon through some ongoing hard work of some people. Unfortunately there is no such thing as unowned land,and all the other sinks are located on property that doesn't allow access. I wish changing 10+ years of negative PR and misinformation would allow the gates of Disney World to open up to everybody tomorrow,but it takes time and patience,which many people are short of. I support gaining access through legal means and getting access for everybody. Of course there is civil disobedience and diving regardless of what anybody says. This course gives cave diving a negative view by local governmental officials that we negotiate access with,as well as run ins with local law enforcement,and gear potentially going to impound. There is a social being held at Jackson Blue Oct 13th. Come to this event and meet a few key people in getting access in Wakulla county,your support could be used.
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Springwise
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Alright, now I'm begining to think we have self professed cave arbiters intentionally misrepresenting the issue. LEON SINKS IS NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!! Everyone knows theres no diving there. Protected areas are different than normal national forest. Just like wilderness areas. Why are there some people trying to contrive reasons to keep people out of this area?? Makes me want to go even more!
Why are there some people trying to contrive reasons to keep people out of this area?? Makes me want to go even more!
I am not trying to keep anybody out of anywhere. I am pointing out that there are a lot of very hard working people trying to get recreational access for the cave diving community,not just a for a small group. They have a very difficult job because they have to overcome years of negativity. A number a years ago a popular site was being reopened,and there were negotitations with county officials. When word got back to the county officials that cave divers were sneaking this location,it almost unraveled the negotiations because the county officials were livid. You got to do what you got to do,and have fun.
SuPrBuGmAn
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Indian for another. There are a few others,but I hesitate to mention them on an open forum.
SuPrBuGmAn
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Mind shooting them to me in a PM?
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Springwise
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If there truly are more sites open in Wakulla, please do let us know. Cherokee (if you want to count it), Indian, and Emerald. Now which one of those can be dived with a cave card? Hmmmmmm only cherokee, but theres not supposed to be a cave there ......
So we have a group of vested parties, representing exclusive disciminatory private organizations as well as certification agencies. Lets see what we would expect if these parties acted in their self interest.... Hmmm. Well WKPP wouldn't want strokes in their caves, messing up the place, so they would lobby for exclusivity. And certification agencies would want to be sure divers kept coming back for more training, so they would lobby for ---duh--- more certs.
So look at Emerald. Is it an open water sinkhole with a cave? Or a cavern dive with a significant shallow upstream cave and deep downstream cave? No matter how you slice it, requiring all the trimix certs and minimum logged dives/awards/whatever is only justified if your worldview is that every site must be geared towards a worse case scenario. So the result is a cavern dive that you need trimix for. Who benifits here? The cert agencies suddenly have more customers, and the realative scarcity of qualified divers makes the WKPP happier.
Dude, I'm not interested in a trimix dive downstream. Who left anyone in charge of deciding we are all not to be trusted to protect our own lives by staying within our skill level?? That we are children who just couldn't resist the lure of that 180' depth. Yeah, lets close the ocean to diving because someone could dive to a depth beyond their cert level.
What this situation shows is that normal, recreational cave divers intending to dive within their rightfully won certifications will be stymied at every turn. Why should we accept smug assurances of better things to come as we watch youtube videos of divers in caves we are supposedly too stupid to be allowed in, breaking records and basking in glory? Are these guys superhuman or something? Or are they hording a resource that belongs to all of us?
It bears repeating that noone has yet to refute my contention that there is no prohibition to diving unprotected national forest sites. I may be proved wrong, but have not been yet. All these straw arguments about the interfering with negotiations are becoming tiresome. If you have proof that its is illegal to dive this particular site, please post it so that we all can read it. If you are going to claim some kind of openness exists at a site (Wakulla county)and then refrain from divulging the site well then.... I think we can all see how silly that is. And if you are asking for patience from the cave diving community, give us some shred of assurace that normal cave divers will EVER be allowed to dive the sites at all without thousands of dollars in unneccessary gear and training.
So we have a group of vested parties, representing exclusive disciminatory private organizations as well as certification agencies. Lets see what we would expect if these parties acted in their self interest.... Hmmm. Well WKPP wouldn't want strokes in their caves, messing up the place, so they would lobby for exclusivity. And certification agencies would want to be sure divers kept coming back for more training, so they would lobby for ---duh--- more certs.
So look at Emerald. Is it an open water sinkhole with a cave? Or a cavern dive with a significant shallow upstream cave and deep downstream cave? No matter how you slice it, requiring all the trimix certs and minimum logged dives/awards/whatever is only justified if your worldview is that every site must be geared towards a worse case scenario. So the result is a cavern dive that you need trimix for. Who benifits here? The cert agencies suddenly have more customers, and the realative scarcity of qualified divers makes the WKPP happier.
Dude, I'm not interested in a trimix dive downstream. Who left anyone in charge of deciding we are all not to be trusted to protect our own lives by staying within our skill level?? That we are children who just couldn't resist the lure of that 180' depth. Yeah, lets close the ocean to diving because someone could dive to a depth beyond their cert level.
What this situation shows is that normal, recreational cave divers intending to dive within their rightfully won certifications will be stymied at every turn. Why should we accept smug assurances of better things to come as we watch youtube videos of divers in caves we are supposedly too stupid to be allowed in, breaking records and basking in glory? Are these guys superhuman or something? Or are they hording a resource that belongs to all of us?
It bears repeating that noone has yet to refute my contention that there is no prohibition to diving unprotected national forest sites. I may be proved wrong, but have not been yet. All these straw arguments about the interfering with negotiations are becoming tiresome. If you have proof that its is illegal to dive this particular site, please post it so that we all can read it. If you are going to claim some kind of openness exists at a site (Wakulla county)and then refrain from divulging the site well then.... I think we can all see how silly that is. And if you are asking for patience from the cave diving community, give us some shred of assurace that normal cave divers will EVER be allowed to dive the sites at all without thousands of dollars in unneccessary gear and training.
Blah, blah , blah , blah , wkpp, blah, blah, elite, blah, blah, wkpp, blah, blah, I can dive where I want to, blah, blah....
If you don't like the rules, don't dive there. If you don't own the land, quit your *****in'.
If you don't like the rules, don't dive there. If you don't own the land, quit your *****in'.
But ONLY if you are willing to dive OC. That was a last minute decision as I recall... most likely due to the CDS's BS stance on RB cave certification. Any word on that being revisited, Kelly? Or are we just supposed to be happy with what we've got?
Personally I am planning to pursue that from another angle.
SuPrBuGmAn
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