PSD Harness Discussion - Ideas Please!!

[dittrimd]

I am looking to find a good Class 3 five point harness which I can use for diving. The harness must be able to do two things. First is must be rated to lift me and all of my gear out of the water. No we do not do helicopter operations but if for some reason I had to be pulled or whatever I want it rated. It must also be able to have weights integrated into it. Picture a DUI weight harness that is a five point class 3 harness which could lift me out of the water. It should also be easy to get into and be fairly simple. I know I am asking a lot but hey this is my life we are talking about.

So some explanation.

1. First off I do not like the current velcro chest harness. It is not a life safety device in my opinion. If I never use the lifting feature of my new harness at least I will have piece of mind that I am wearing a true life safety device. Also a 5 point harness that is adjustable can be made to fit me perfectly.

2. Easy to get on is obvious for PSD. TIME!! (I have found in my searches that harnesses with different color webbing looks like they would be less confusion about putting on take a looke below)

3. As for the weight issue here is what I am thinking. I currently dive with a Zeagle Ranger BC and I utilize the integrated weight pouches. Initially I had all weight in the pouches but over time working with bouyancy and trim I have moved a lot of weight to the rear bc area with the Zeagle rear weight bags. This has done a couple things for me. First off it has made my rig more balanced and I find that I have very little problem keeping horizontal. It has also helped me on the surface without having to kick to keep a vertical position. What I do not like is if I get into a situation where I have to drop my BC. As soon as I separate I become a rocket ship to the surface. If I am caught in a over head hazard swimming downward could be very difficult if I am so very positive. What I am strving for is to make myself neutral to slightly negative with my dry suit and harness. This was I could swim down and out of the overhead hazard. Also if I make my BC/Tank slightly negative to neutral with 500 psi of air then even if I had a BC failure I could still swim my gear to the surface by just droping my weight on my harness.

Well I hope I have explained myself if not please ask for clarification especially about my idea on weight distribution. Here are six of the top contenders for harnesses that I have found so far. Please let me know if there are any other out there to check out and please give me your thoughts!!

Thanks

Mark


Rock 'n' Rescue helio NFPA class III harness
http://www.adrenalindreams.com/catalog-harnesses.html

Pros: Easy to don/Adjustable/No rear or shoulder D-ring Cons: Not sure if weight easily added on/only one waist connection point I would like chest connection.

Yates NFPA Full Body Class III
http://www.ahsrescue.com/pc-859-74-yates-nfpa-full-body-class-iii.aspx

Pros: Adjustable/Weights would go on belt/two connection points/no rear or shoulder d-rings Cons: Not sure how easy it is to don/not sure about two piece system and how it would work.

RescueTECH OBSERVER Rope Access Rescue Harness
http://www.rescuetech1.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=899

Pros:Looks easy to Don/Adustable/Weigt pouches on waist belt Cons: Rear d ring/lot of padding not necessary

Global Tethered Diving Harness​

http://www.scubacenter.com/safety_and_rescue/Rescue_Equipment/Tethered_Diving_Harnesses.htm

Pros: Weigt pouches easily installed on belt area Cons: D ring on back for lifting only No rating(i.e NFPA)/not a lot of information all around/not sure about fit/comfort/adjustability.

Life Saving Systems #518 Dive-SAR Harness
http://www.lifesavingsystems.com/product_pages/harness1_3.htm

Pros: This harness is supposedly designed for divers/ weights could go on waist belt/looks adjustable Cons: Chest connection looks lose/all black could make it hard to don quickly/no other d rings for line connection and the chest may not be the best.

CMC ProSeries SRT Harness
http://www.cmcrescue.com/product.php?CatalogID=1&dept_id=20663&rootNode=0&pid=20319http://www.cmcrescue.com/product.php?catalogID=1&dept_id=20755&rootNode=0&pid=20319

Pros: This one looks the most promising. Looks easy to don/ two front attachment/Weights on waist belt/adjustable Cons: Rear D ring

 

[scuba pirate]

Well since you already dive with a Zeagle Ranger BCD, have you considered looking into the Zeagle SAR BCD? If not here is a link to it.

http://www.zeagle.com/index.php?submenu=SpecializedBC&src=gendocs&link=SAR

 

[Gary D.]

IMHO you’re over thinking this or making a simple thing complicated. But I see why you are thinking in this direction.

A 5 point is going to be very time consuming to get into and out of as well as mess with the way the rest of your gear lies on your body. If for some unexpected reason you need to be air lifted my suggestion is to use the lifting equipment the chopper should already have available. If they have nothing available they MAY NOT be capable of lifting you safely. If they can lift they will be prepared with the proper equipment.

I don’t like weight integrated systems for PSD. Like you we use Zeagle but we wear belts. Some of the guys have a few pounds in the BC but the bulk is on a simple old fashioned belt.

As far as harnesses we use a variety of chest units because we just can’t find one that works for everyone. I use my own which is a West Marine unit they don’t offer anymore. It’s a sail boat mast lifting unit that goes on in just a second or two. They have similar units available that work very well. They go in right over our dry suit and under everything else so if all our gear needed to be removed we would still be harnessed up.

Good luck on finding what you looking for. Keep us posted. Have you thought of designing something on your own and doing some testing?

Gary D.

 

[BladesRobinson]

Gary's recommendation to use the lifting gear provided by the helicpoter is sound. We work with the U.S. Coast Guard and they want to use THEIR gear. They are liable if they drop one of us (or one of our patients) and I am absolutely certain they would not allow us to be hoisted by one of our harnesses.

I have been doing the job since 1980 and like Gary's team, our team stays pretty active. We have NEVER had an occassion to need a five point lifting harness on a diver. Once, back in 1988 we lowered and raised divers at a bridge site for TRAINING. It worked but it just was not practical. Nearly 20 years later, we are still comfortable with the decision made in 1988 and we don't use 5 point harnesses on divers. For us, there are easier and much safer ways to deploy and recover divers.

I would strongly recommend that instead of buying a Class 3 diving harness, you spend your money on training or another piece of equipment that would be utilized more often.

Saying that, I am making an assumption your department already has access to Class 3 harnesses, as required by NFPA.

 

[bridgediver]

Like you said Mark, it is a life safety issue. I'd use the right gear for the job in this instance. But what is the job? If you're diving - a diving harness should be used. If you being lifted I think proper high angle equipment should be used. I don't think 1 to do both is a good idea.
Does anyone know if repeated soaking and drying of a harness reduces its lifting strength? I know the maintenance on our high angle equipment is intense - 1 fall and the harness is gone and they're all replaced every 5(?) years regardless of use

 

[dittrimd]

Wow, I did not think this thread was going anywhere but I am glad to see all of you guys offering your suggestions and I really do appreciate it.

I realize the challenges with this endeavor but I really feel it is worth the effort. My main reason for looking at different harness solutions is to first see if I can find something that fits better than the two chest harnesses I have tried. I would also like to see if it could double as my weight belt becuase I do want to get my removeable weight off of my BC. Obviously it would have to be something quicker to don than a chest harness and weight belt which I think is a realistic goal.

The five point harness idea was just a way to help with adjustment and hopefully keeping the harness from riding up on my body. The ideas of high angle/repelling and/or helo ops is only and after thought. In fact my guess is that if I ever had the opportunity to do helo work they would most likely make me use their own gear.

So far I am leaning towards the CMC SRT Harness and possibly the OMS quick dump weigth pockets. The harness was made for the water and has a lot of the features I am looking for. I will keep you updated on what I find and hopefully post some pictures.

Thanks again to all for the help.

Mark

 

[Lucy's Diver]

http://www.decadiving.com/harnes.html

Third from bottom, single jock strap & chest strap. You can attach non-ditchable weight pockets to it. You can easily secure a surface supply block to it. You can secure two tank staps to this if you choose to dive without a BC (like if you're in a hat or on AGA in real shallow water). You can take the tank straps off it and wear a BC over it. In training I've been hauled out of pools and up onto boats by the big rescue loop at the top (behind your head in practice). I've seen a guy hauled 30 feet up to the deck of a large ship by that ring while wearing a dive helmet and 40 pounds of lead (unpleasant but he was uninjured). The surface supply quick release goes well on one of the lower D rings.