Question for the DM's & Instructors who dive DIR

[sheck33]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
I think this would be a good question for mhk to chime in on or mike ferrara. The point of this question is not the dir philosophy, the point is as a dm how do you demonstrate sharing air the "padi way", while wearing a hogarthian rig. And if hog/dir is "the only way" to dive, then why would you compromise your beliefs to work on teaching a class a different way? Imho a divers thought process is much more important than the gear.

i am not the instructor so i dont have to decide how to teach. However, when i take students on their tour i explain to them ,before we decend, that they will get the reg in my mouth on a long hose if they were to run out of air, i would not share air the 'padi' way.

also i will try to be a good example. I dont kneel on the bottom and i dont ascend in a vertical position and i dont kick up the silt. It is a good way to get them to try to do things right, they imitate what they see the staff & instructors do.

but yes sometimes it is frustrating to see the instructor set a lousy example.....

 

[MHK]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
I think this would be a good question for mhk to chime in on or mike ferrara. The point of this question is not the dir philosophy, the point is as a dm how do you demonstrate sharing air the "padi way", while wearing a hogarthian rig. And if hog/dir is "the only way" to dive, then why would you compromise your beliefs to work on teaching a class a different way? Imho a divers thought process is much more important than the gear.

I don't teach very many OW classes in the interest of full disclosure, however when I do most of us teach the donation of the primary, but then also take the time to note to our students that it's common to see diver's having a difference preference so to prepare them for that eventuality we show them both ways and explain the pro's and con's of both. Most wind up concluding that donating the primary is much more efficient, but my sense is that we have an obligation to show the the "other" way lest they wind up on a cattle boat in Cayman and not understand how other's may be trained and configured..

Hope that helps..

Later

 

[mgri]

Wendy once bubbled...


I think you may be getting DIR and DIRF confused. DIR is the approach to diving and the DIRF course is the class that teached it. DIR was around way before the class was.

I think your right Wendy, I assumed that when he said DIR he meant DIRF trained divers that dived somewhere between tech and rec.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Since I own the shop I can do thing how I want as long as it meets the agency requirements. I dive a bp/wing with a 7 ft primarry hose and a bungied backup. I show and explain other methods but my students also use a bungied backup. they aren't in a bp/wing though. We were in the process of selling off all the rental gear and replacing it when we decided to close the store. I have enough bc's left to finish the class I'm teaching now and have sold everything else including the rental bp/wings.

I'll soon be an independant instructor and I'll still wear the same gear. If some shop wants me to teach a class they had better rent the pool for at least 15 hours (for a small class) and get used to the idea that I dive what I dive. There isn't anything about the configuration that violates any training standard. I keep meaning to request a waiver so that they don't need to have the snorkel through the entire class (I know others who have done it) but I haven't sat down to write it up yet.

I also teach students to be trimmed and to use kicks that work in silty environments because that's where we'll be diving.

BTW, I don't refer to anything I do as DIR. Good skills are good skills.

 

[pt40fathoms]

When a DM is working with an instructor, the primary purpose is to help the instructor in teaching and or demonstrating the basic skills required for an OW certification. If you show up pool side or at the open water with what ever gear you feel is right for you, and the heck with the instructor, do everyone a favor and stay home. If you feel you can contribute to the class, and IF you have discussed it with the instructor and he agrees that the "different" set up would be a good side lesson for the students. Then by all means with everyone in agreement, go on and show them what is out their.

 

[Ron Brandt]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
[

Since I own the shop I can do thing how I want as long as it meets the agency requirements. I dive a bp/wing with a 7 ft primarry hose and a bungied backup. I show and explain other methods but my students also use a bungied backup. they aren't in a bp/wing though.

Mike , I just like your style!

I actually checked this out with PADI and everything is cool.AS long as everything is explained to the student and they get to try both ways.

Look at the new video.They show a demo where the tank is put on over the head...a no no a few years back.

Ron

 

[Dan MacKay]

Hi folks,

Ah back to the great snorkle debate. I thought that I would add my two cents worth to the discussion as well.

As a GUE instructors both Mike and I teach in completely DIR setups. I as well have to fulfill my obligation to keep my OW certification. I teach in the same gear as I do when teaching Tech or Fundamentals except I use a single tank.

I carry a collapsible snorkel, where it belongs, in my left pocket. The rules say I have to carry it and demonstrate the skills, as well as have the students carry it and demonstrate the skills. Once they have finished the skills stow it away. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out you cannot do a proper OOA drill with a straw hanging on your mask strap. Not if you expect to keep your mask on!

For those of us who have made the leap to DIR why is that we are to some degree allowing ourselves to be hamstrung by training agencies that force us to dumb down training and equipment for OW students because it is viewed as too advanced or technical for them? I want the best for my students and hopefully provide them the best that is available.

For the brief discussion of what the Fundamentals course is - it is exactly that - Fundamentals. Bouyancy, trim and teamwork. If the OW agencies were doing their job then I am afraid that I would have far fewer Fundamentals students to train.

Safe dives,

Dan

 

[GreenDiverDown]

soon enough.

First off I don't claim to be DIR.

I'll say this though. I like the fitness aspect of DIR and that was one reason I started back running and biking. I like the gear configuration and I think that my gear setup might just pass inspection by the most finicky of DIR divers. I like the skill set that often is thought of as DIR and I think that I am pretty well practiced in those skills. I like the idea of team work and I am trying to improve on that...though it can be tough to find like-minded divers. I like the emphasis that DIR puts on dive preparation and planning and I'm trying to improve on that...though I must admit that sometimes I think that it is a bit overkill for the weenie dives that I do. Their deco stuff...I don't know...

Let me try to answer your first question.

I used to teach for my shop. I taught in my DIR gear. I taught sharing the primary and would demonstrate with my long hose and also have my DM demonstrate with our rental gear setup.

But I don't teach for the shop now. They didn't mind me teaching in DIR gear so much as they minded me teaching in gear they didn't carry. For instance, they weren't too excited about my predilection for Halcyon stuff. (Halcyon has become a scource of contempt and jockularity at my shop.) So I had to snip off all the Halcyon logos. You see, they carry OMS. As long as I was geared out in stuff they sold that was O.K. A BP is a BP. Apeks, Oceanic, and Suunto...no problemo...they sell all that crap. But Halcyon or DUI...no...no way!

Anyway...if you'll do a search on this and go way back and find a post by Ferrara on how he tweaks his class, you'll see a great example of how a PADI course can be taught with some better focus in mind. Mike doesn't like to refer to his shtick as DIR...and I don't blame 'em...but there's a lot of similarities.

SA

 

[Drew Sailbum]

certain snorkel skills are required in a PADI OW course, and for those skills the snorkel must be in place. But for the majority of the course, the only requirement is that the instructor and student diver have snorkels with them.

No problem either with teaching different methods of donating air. Donate primary and switch to bungeed backup. Donate alternate and keep primary. Donate primary and switch to AIR2-type reg.

I find it helps to show OW students different ways to perform skills so they learn that there are multiple ways to accomplish the same task. I have a teaching reg with both a "traditional" octo and an AIR2-type octo. Easy to teach both ways. Then I sometimes show up in my doubles with a long hose and bungeed backup. The more you can show, the more thay can learn.