Reasons for using aluminum tanks in cold water?

[Bennno]

...I can dive both steels and Alu with the same bcd. I don't need to change to thicker bungees, but don't see the issue if you have to. Seems to be a double standard, where it's okay to modify a Hollis, but not okay to modify a Razor.

Sure, but the loops of you Stealth work better for steel than the single bungee of the Razor... steel tanks get too wobbly with a single bungee.
The double standard I don't really see. Why wouldn't you mod a Razor?

How much weight do you need with your Al80s in Canada? Doesn't that bother you?

 

[Bennno]

However, they are cumbersome, even in the water.

Yeah, but how many AL80s would you need to carry the same amount of gas? Like 5? Compared to a bunch of ALs the 120s are probably less of a PITA to handle.

The SF2 is about the best thought out side mountable rebreather out there, in my most humble opinion. I'm getting mine next week.

Really, ey? Isn't that thing twice is big as a sidekick? Or is it that you did't want a mCCR?

 

[decompression]

l'll have my students use several different tanks (in Canada), they see how to rig them, they see and feel the differences. That way they can make their choice. Also, if they use steels locally, then they are familiar with AL80's when they travel.
Benno, when you say weight, do you mean on the tanks or in general?

 

[The Chairman]

Yeah, but how many AL80s would you need to carry the same amount of gas? Like 5? Compared to a bunch of ALs the 120s are probably less of a PITA to handle.

I think I made this pretty obvious in my post. Why make it sound like I've indicated otherwise? I just don't get that kind of bicker baiting.

Really, ey? Isn't that thing twice is big as a sidekick? Or is it that you did't want a mCCR?

I dove both and a number of others, such as the GEM. I prefer the SF2. I hate chest mounted CLs and I do like integrated electronics. In reality, the SF2 is about the size of an AL80. There are a number of other factors as well, but I don't want to hijack the thread.

 

[Razorista]

... steel tanks get too wobbly with a single bungee...

Where did you get this totally counterintuitive idea??

Loops aren't even much different from the loops the single bungee forms under the armpits.
Horizontal in the water they behave identical.
When moving wildly the single bungee can contrarily be less 'wobbly' because of the short distance to the fixed boltsnap at the D-ring, but the difference is cosmetic, not a functional difference.

 

[Bennno]

Benno, when you say weight, do you mean on the tanks or in general?

I mean how much extra lead you need. I would need almost 40 lbs in the winter diving AL80s in saltwater. With steel tanks I 'only' need 22 to 26.

I think I made this pretty obvious in my post. Why make it sound like I've indicated otherwise? I just don't get that kind of bicker baiting.

I honestly don't know what you talking about. I agree with what you said. I wasn't bicker baiting.

@Razorista
Look, whatever I or other people tell you, all you do is repeat for the hundreds time how great the Razor is. Your 'arguments' don't make any sense to me. The claim that a single bungee is more stable than a double bungee doesn't make any sense. Open another thread about bungees, if you wanna discuss that.

 

[Razorista]

... Seems to be a double standard, where it's okay to modify a Hollis, but not okay to modify a Razor. Once you own it, customize it to work for yourself.

I seldom see modified Razor systems, perhaps because Razors generally are still a rare sight.
In my opinion because of the same problem I faced when trying to moddifiy it: it's next to perfect in many details and extremly hard to 'improve' without damaging it permanently in some small way.
Most modifications are removed after some time leaving only the bungee system and the weights, both of which are optional and changeable attachments anyway.

When Razor systems appear on ebay you can see most of the time that the user did not get formal training and did not understand the system at all.
Most are damaged (removed backup inflator, holes drilled into the plates and webbing for different weight system attachments, etc...) and setup incorrectly in the pictures.

It seems easier for most, if they fail to 'understand' the Razor, to buy a different system and modify that.

Sadly high quality training in cold water regions was particularly hard to come by until recently.
So especially in cold water areas many failed to make use of the Razor and are now using a different system.

When they get experience all learn to use their system with any type of cylinder or rebreather they might fancy at that time.
Sidemount has proven again and again that it works with any situation.
The sidemount system used is just a tool and if build after the Razor was released often imitates it's basic concept anyway.
There are good hammers and bad hammers, but all are sufficient for most types of nail.

 

[Razorista]

...Open another thread about bungees, if you wanna discuss that.

You brought it up and discuss it @Bennno, I just comment and offer an opinion.

 

[Razorista]

...I would need almost 40 lbs in the winter diving AL80s in saltwater. With steel tanks I 'only' need 22 to 26...

Even in this thread and recently in other threads as well people are of several different opinions on whether it is 'best practice' to include steel tank weight in the total weight calculation or if you have to be neutral without and counter their weight with your wing.

This is not so much a question of 'steel tanks' but only concerns a few 'very heavy steel tanks'.
Many steel tanks are quite floaty and do not save more than a pound or two.
Light steel tanks and aluminums are one group, heavy steels the other one.
So this is not a matter of aluminum tanks vs steel, but negative tanks vs neutral.

btw: rebreathers would all be in the 'neutral' category, wouldn't they?

 

[decompression]

Bennno, I try to keep the tanks as neutral as possible, it's what I teach as well. Quite often my SM students will carry on to advanced SM, wreck, etc..so, as a rule tanks are neutral and diver is neutral. Not always possible with steels but.

Anyways, when using Al80's the option is to use 2-4 weights or no weight, depending.

The diver (is weighted neutral), in my case in salt it's about 36 lbs with DS and thick undergarments. With my HP120s (which are my heaviest tanks), I can use 30lbs.