By "skip breathing" here, do you mean "holding your breath for a couple of seconds between inhalation and exhalation"? If so, the incident you cited is good to know. I haven't heard of that before and didn't know it could be a possible consequence. I think I'll change my breathing technique to eliminate the pause between breaths. I don't want to become a statistic. Thanks for sharing your experience. That's what great about this forum...cummings66:
reducing air usage
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Not 100% sure about the science behind this but I have found that when I am in the water at the surface and before I descend if I remove my mask and breath through my reg while my face is in the water, after 4-5 breaths my breathing rate drops considerably. I think I remember an instructor telling me this was called the "mamilian" reflex. Not sure if this works in warm water but have found in cold water it seems to work - does anyone else have information on this?
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I like to think just to be mindful about exhaling more fully. It is a subtle thing. You certainly don't want to actually skip a breath or anything drastic.
People should take the time to really understand dead space and how this effects the ratio of exchange. Many things in SCUBA get more clear once you conceptualize this. We use this type of understanding managing people on ventilators, so I am not sure when/how most divers get this. Of course TSandM has written some very clear descriptions I think. Retaining CO2 from skipping too much could be really bad...I like to think of it as optimizing exchange and of finding the sweet spot of the ratio.
There is a diminished return if you overdo it and go past this most optimal point.
Dr. Andrew Weil (MD type) has a nice cd called "Breathing" for anyone interested. He even discusses the effects on parasympathetic component of the nervous system and how it slows heart rate. (I could be wrong...have not listened to it in awhile, but it is very good and not too moonbatty) Also discusses the affect on BP and biofeedback from a physiology perspective. I play with the techniques sometimes freediving. If you ever get a HR monitor and play with taking your rate and BP before during after exercise...you will get hooked. The feedback is powerful stuff. Way easier than I ever dreamed too.
People should take the time to really understand dead space and how this effects the ratio of exchange. Many things in SCUBA get more clear once you conceptualize this. We use this type of understanding managing people on ventilators, so I am not sure when/how most divers get this. Of course TSandM has written some very clear descriptions I think. Retaining CO2 from skipping too much could be really bad...I like to think of it as optimizing exchange and of finding the sweet spot of the ratio.
There is a diminished return if you overdo it and go past this most optimal point.
Dr. Andrew Weil (MD type) has a nice cd called "Breathing" for anyone interested. He even discusses the effects on parasympathetic component of the nervous system and how it slows heart rate. (I could be wrong...have not listened to it in awhile, but it is very good and not too moonbatty) Also discusses the affect on BP and biofeedback from a physiology perspective. I play with the techniques sometimes freediving. If you ever get a HR monitor and play with taking your rate and BP before during after exercise...you will get hooked. The feedback is powerful stuff. Way easier than I ever dreamed too.
Sorry I wasn't clear in my original post. I do deep, long breathing... both deep, long inhalation and long, full exhalation (with a pause in between). So this is probably not the same as the referred to "skip breathing" and I don't retain CO2 in my lungs/bloodstream.catherine96821:
cummings66
Contributor
Read http://scubadoc.blogspot.com/2005/08/glossary-web-page-updated-to-include.html
What you're doing is called skip breathing and dangerous. It's not to be taken lightly.
It's simply not necessary to skip breathe to get better SAC rates, I've got buddies who don't and they have astounding rates. I tried it until I discovered there are problems with it. I used to get headaches and it took a bit but I discovered the cause, skip breathing. The sad thing is that I only did it when diving with a buddy who had half my SAC to try and extend the dive time, and it really didn't do much except give me minor headaches.
I feel great after diving, be it one or 5 dives. I could never before in the past do 5 dives in a row if I skip breathed because I'd feel rundown and wore out. I breathe as I do on the surface and feel perfect for every dive.
I'm lucky I never passed out due to CO2 retention. I didn't get wild with it, merely paused a couple seconds in between breaths and it was enough to cause minor headaches.
I'm smarter now, and I'll tell you that you too will be if you breathe normally.
What you're doing is called skip breathing and dangerous. It's not to be taken lightly.
It's simply not necessary to skip breathe to get better SAC rates, I've got buddies who don't and they have astounding rates. I tried it until I discovered there are problems with it. I used to get headaches and it took a bit but I discovered the cause, skip breathing. The sad thing is that I only did it when diving with a buddy who had half my SAC to try and extend the dive time, and it really didn't do much except give me minor headaches.
I feel great after diving, be it one or 5 dives. I could never before in the past do 5 dives in a row if I skip breathed because I'd feel rundown and wore out. I breathe as I do on the surface and feel perfect for every dive.
I'm lucky I never passed out due to CO2 retention. I didn't get wild with it, merely paused a couple seconds in between breaths and it was enough to cause minor headaches.
I'm smarter now, and I'll tell you that you too will be if you breathe normally.
I don't know about the different breathing techniques (I just breath normal), but I have low .4 SAC rates and and my biggest contributors are getting my weighting right, good buoyancy control, being relaxed, and not finning 100mph just taking my time when UW.
A trick I use is to not dump all the air from your bc when you decend. A diver should be -4# at the beginning of the dive due to the full tank. That means you can retain that +4# worth of air in your BC and not have to use it to become neutral at depth.
I don't skip breath, I constantly, slowly breath and keep my airway open to let the breath escape naturally, no muscles need to be used to forcibly exhale, the wet suit has enough elasticity to do that. It's a great relaxation technique, concentrating on your breathing and bouyancy and not beating the water into submission. After a while you don't notice and it just happens automatically. Another advantage is there is a long stream of light bubbles, no big burst to interfere with your vision.
Don't be afraid to ask your LDS if you can book some pool time to practice breath and bouyancy control. It's cheap practice and will really help when you're paying good money to see the sites and instead you worry about these type things.
I'm no instructor, but this is what I do and I have had a sac rate as low as .38 on one ocassion. Many of my buddies joke about it, I'm always going to have plenty of air left at the end of the dive. This also allows me to spend extra time relaxing at 15' waiting for people to board the boat, less nitrogen, less fatigue.
I don't skip breath, I constantly, slowly breath and keep my airway open to let the breath escape naturally, no muscles need to be used to forcibly exhale, the wet suit has enough elasticity to do that. It's a great relaxation technique, concentrating on your breathing and bouyancy and not beating the water into submission. After a while you don't notice and it just happens automatically. Another advantage is there is a long stream of light bubbles, no big burst to interfere with your vision.
Don't be afraid to ask your LDS if you can book some pool time to practice breath and bouyancy control. It's cheap practice and will really help when you're paying good money to see the sites and instead you worry about these type things.
I'm no instructor, but this is what I do and I have had a sac rate as low as .38 on one ocassion. Many of my buddies joke about it, I'm always going to have plenty of air left at the end of the dive. This also allows me to spend extra time relaxing at 15' waiting for people to board the boat, less nitrogen, less fatigue.
Hi regul8r,
It sounds like you got a lot of great advice.
If you already know you're light at your stop with 6 and you went to 8 then you are done for now. Your weighting is fine and that's that. Yes you may be able to dive with 2 pounds less someday but it won't mean squat. What you ate before diving could make almost as much difference.
Experieince, being still and relaxing are all huge contributors. For that to happen you need not only the right weight but it needs to be in the right places so you can hang horizontal in the water like a sky-diver in freefall. Check on that.
How do you accelerate the comfort thing? When you have no buddy or otherwise can't scuba dive go skin-diving, even if it's laps n the Y pool. Sustained snorkel breathing will make oral breathing second nature. The dead space of the snorkel will train you to breathe deep and slow like nothing else. When skin-diving you are breathing against a few inches of water column, over time this will tone your diaphram and enhance your ability to control those long slow deep breaths. This same skill will be instrumental in allowing you to manage intermitent buoyancy changes with modified lung volume. Meanwhile you are getting some dandy cardio conditioning.
And now my secret.... Sing, sing loud and hold long notes while driving. I like oldies. Challenging yourself to sing long passages of a song on a single breath, metering it out as you sing.
Your first assignment, Cara Mia, by Jay and the Americans
Pete
It sounds like you got a lot of great advice.
If you already know you're light at your stop with 6 and you went to 8 then you are done for now. Your weighting is fine and that's that. Yes you may be able to dive with 2 pounds less someday but it won't mean squat. What you ate before diving could make almost as much difference.
Experieince, being still and relaxing are all huge contributors. For that to happen you need not only the right weight but it needs to be in the right places so you can hang horizontal in the water like a sky-diver in freefall. Check on that.
How do you accelerate the comfort thing? When you have no buddy or otherwise can't scuba dive go skin-diving, even if it's laps n the Y pool. Sustained snorkel breathing will make oral breathing second nature. The dead space of the snorkel will train you to breathe deep and slow like nothing else. When skin-diving you are breathing against a few inches of water column, over time this will tone your diaphram and enhance your ability to control those long slow deep breaths. This same skill will be instrumental in allowing you to manage intermitent buoyancy changes with modified lung volume. Meanwhile you are getting some dandy cardio conditioning.
And now my secret.... Sing, sing loud and hold long notes while driving. I like oldies. Challenging yourself to sing long passages of a song on a single breath, metering it out as you sing.
Your first assignment, Cara Mia, by Jay and the Americans
Pete
Brandnew2Scuba
Contributor
As I finished my OW quite recently I still remember most of the information you more experienced divers may have forgotten or discarded as basic info. I was told to hold your breath at any time for any reason for any period of time is skip breathing and is very dangerous due to possiblity of passing out and of course embolism. I am new to diving but have been meditating for a long time, everyone I've dove with tells me how amazed they are with my air consumption, the only reason I can think of for it is the meditation. So that's my tip, meditate often and regularly, you'll thank me as it will improve your air consumption and many other area's of your life.
Like I stated in a previous post, thanks for sharing your experience. I'll stop the short pause between inhalation/exhalation. I came across this technique here: http://www.scubadiving.com/training/basic_skills/use_less_air_%282005%29/1/, which states, "by holding that air in your lungs for a moment or two for maximum gas exchange (use your diaphragm instead of closing your throat), and then exhaling as completely as you can so you expel as much carbon dioxide as possible." I have been exhaling out deeply and completely during each breath cycle to expel as much CO2 as possible. The pause I've been doing is to allow maximum gas exchange in the lungs, per the article, and not so much to conserve air (the deep breathing does that). I never had headaches, dizziness, or any other problems. But maybe I've been lucky and will stop practicing this technique. If it's that dangerous, I wonder why scubadiving magazine would suggest such technique.cummings66:
Anyone else heard of dive incidents associated with this breathing technique? If so, I hope this get broadcasted so that newbies like me would become more aware of this and not try it. Thanks.
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