Refusing the services of an assigned dive guide (long post)

[MXGratefulDiver]

Given the very similar experience we had on our liveaboard trip in Komodo four years ago, I half-expected you to say this guide was German. Unfortunately in our case, the other group spoke up first and our group got stuck with the bad guide for the duration of the trip. I wasn't happy about it, as I think we missed a lot that we would have otherwise experienced ... and when we returned home I wrote an email to the owners of the operation, letting them know how I felt about getting stuck with a guide who I felt wasn't qualified for the job.

In fairness, everything else about that trip was so exceptional that I had a hard time being mad about it ... but it does point out that the competence of the person leading your dives can make a world of difference in the experiences and memories you take away from a trip.

All I want from a guide is to be familiar enough with the site and marine life to be able to find and point out those hard-to-find creatures that someone unfamiliar with the habitat could look right at and never realise what they were seeing ... and in Indonesia there are a lot of very special creatures that fit that description. But they can only do that if they stay on the site and with the divers to whom they're assigned ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[beester]

One question tho Questo... what has dive-pro to do with managing your own dives? In my understanding every diver should be able to dive unguided and be able to manage his own dives based on his own formulated plan.

In some cases a dive-guide (DM, whatever) can help me out finding critters but in most cases I attend briefing. Based on this briefing I'll formulate a diveplan with my divebuddy within the limits of the briefing (max depth, max divetime, dangers, entry and exit, current, stops, gasplan, etc).

Anyway in your case I would have followed on dive 1 because that was agreed. Have a small discussion with the group lead (since the DM doesn't speak my language) explaining that I'll be leading my own consequetive dives. You'd be surprised in how many places dive-ops will organise the logistics (liveaboard, dayboat, ...) give a general briefing but leave you to your own to plan the dive and dive the plan.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

One question tho Questo... what has dive-pro to do with managing your own dives? In my understanding every diver should be able to dive unguided and be able to manage his own dives based on his own formulated plan.

In some cases a dive-guide (DM, whatever) can help me out finding critters but in most cases I attend briefing. Based on this briefing I'll formulate a diveplan with my divebuddy within the limits of the briefing (max depth, max divetime, dangers, entry and exit, current, stops, gasplan, etc).

Anyway in your case I would have followed on dive 1 because that was agreed. Have a small discussion with the group lead (since the DM doesn't speak my language) explaining that I'll be leading my own consequetive dives. You'd be surprised in how many places dive-ops will organise the logistics (liveaboard, dayboat, ...) give a general briefing but leave you to your own to plan the dive and dive the plan.

... good luck finding some of these creatures on your own, unless you know specifically what types of habitat they live in and what to look for to find them ...

... the value of a dive guide in a place like Indonesia has nothing to do with managing your dive ... it has everything to do with experiencing the marine life you went there to see ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[beester]

Hey Bob... I agree. I really do (already said that in my mail regarding critters). If there is local macro-live (pygmee seahorses, frogfish, etc) or cleaning stations... of course I'll follow. That's what the focus is at that point. However even in these cases... if the DM spots a pygmee seahorse... and 5 or 6 of the photo-taking possy start crowding... I just let go and continue my dive. I might miss alot this way, but for me diving is more then the underwater-safari-photo-thropy hunt.

By the way... these are very very nice pics, congrats!

 

[Quero]

One question tho Questo... what has dive-pro to do with managing your own dives?

The difference is that in places where guided dives are required (such as the place I was diving at), dive pros are exempted from the usual requirements and are permitted to guide their own dives and/or dive solo.

In my understanding every diver should be able to dive unguided and be able to manage his own dives based on his own formulated plan. In some cases a dive-guide (DM, whatever) can help me out finding critters but in most cases I attend briefing. Based on this briefing I'll formulate a diveplan with my divebuddy within the limits of the briefing (max depth, max divetime, dangers, entry and exit, current, stops, gasplan, etc).

Of course you must also understand that local laws and regulations have to be followed regardless of what training agencies claim divers trained under their standard programs "should" be able to do, so that if guided dives are mandated, that's all there is to it.

Anyway in your case I would have followed on dive 1 because that was agreed. Have a small discussion with the group lead (since the DM doesn't speak my language) explaining that I'll be leading my own consequetive dives. You'd be surprised in how many places dive-ops will organise the logistics (liveaboard, dayboat, ...) give a general briefing but leave you to your own to plan the dive and dive the plan.

Unless, of course, local regulations prohibit this!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Ah yes ... as in the Maldives, guides are required ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[beaverdivers]

A good guide is worth their weight in silver, an exceptional one in gold!

 

[TSandM]

One my one trip to Cozumel, we did all our diving with one dive operator, and because there were five in our group, we had our own boat -- every day but one. On that day, "our" guide was taking a group to the mainland, and we had another guide. We also had a sixth diver. The guide (who is required by Coz rules) briefed the dive, and said he had heard from our guide that we were all experienced divers, so the only thing he asked was that we stay where he could see us. Which was fine by everybody on the boat, right up until we splashed and the guide and the sixth diver took off like scalded cats. After spending about ten minutes aborting photographs and abandoning interesting critters to try to "stay where he could see us", one of my buddies swam up with his wetnotes and showed me a message saying, "*&$# the DM!" We all agreed, and from that point onward, made no effort to stay with him at all. He eventually realized it and slowed down to where he could see us.

I've had other guiding experiences where guides did things I really disliked, like leading us into heavy current for five minutes or more to try to get to a turtle, or swimming us off the reef into blue water and then not being able to find the reef again. But it was always a single mistake, and not something to go to the dive op about, really. But in your case, I think I'd have told them that either we do not dive with this guide, or if you assign him to us, we will not stay with him unless we like what he is doing.

 

[Darnold9999]

At the moment that a dive guide starts to do something I don't want to do I stop following. I may or may not catch up later.

Far too often I find that guides feel that clients want to see as much of the dive site as possible. While I am happier seeing as much as possible on the dive site. A subtle difference, but one that took me a long time to learn.

I really only want a guide to point out the critters, and am actually happier if I can find them myself. I do miss a lot that way, but enjoy the hunt just as much or more than capturing the image.

 

[beester]

Sorry but I've dived in Coz, Maledives, Thailand, Egypt... etc. And yes a dive-guide (master) is required by law in these countries. However nobody says that he needs to be leading your group or you need to stay together with the guide. The only place of the few I mentioned where the diveguide stayed with us all the time was in Cozumel. In this case hats off... it was a real pleasure because Jeremy of livingunderwater really guided our dive.

All the other places... yes there is a DM in the water... but all in good agreement that we split our ways once we enter the water.