Regulator Annual Service & Maintenance, Sport’s Biggest Scam???

[SterlingDiver]

I would really like to get the opinion of those who really know, (IE work on regulators professionally, have experience beyond what they have been told, etc) if the annual maintenance of regulators is just a gimmick?

I own seven sets of regulators for my family. Even if the parts are covered under warranty the service costs of a regulator can far exceed the original purchase price in a few years. I guess as I have traveled the world diving I have found that the dive shops outside of the US rarely do annual maintenance, if ever. They generally run the reg. as is until it shows a problem that needs attention. Some of the regs I have seen are 5 years old being dove almost every day of the week with no problems.

It appears to me from a cost perspective you would be better off buying a new set of regs every four to five years rather than spending the money on annual service.

I have spoken to a few divers that have been around since the 1950’s that have expressed that since the early ‘80s the parts used in regs are so much better than the early years they don’t believe they need to be serviced all that often.

So anyway, I just had one reg. serviced that had 340 dives on it since new three years ago. I had four additional regulators checked but not serviced. They all checked out fine. They are from 2-3 years old with 50 to 100 dives per reg. on average.

So what are your thoughts?

Are we all being fed a line of Bull**** from the Scuba industry to cover their backsides or to generate LDS revenues?

I do not have a strong opinion on this, yet. But, I have to admit it seems that annual service in most cases is over kill.

Good Diving,

Dave

 

[tstormdiver]

I am no expert on it, by a longshot, (in fact I'm just a beginner) but I'm not going to take any more chances than neccesary on equipment that is my life support. The regualtors may be tough & simple in design, but to find too out late, that I should have had my gear inspected & serviced while 100' down in 40 degree water is not a situation I would want to be in personally. But it's the indivdual diver's own safety that's at risk by not following the manufacturer's instructions & suggestions. I look at it this way, "better safe than sorry". Just my 2 cents worth on the subject.

 

[alo100]

I don't want to give out my personal opinion yet, because I am not an expert.
Still, I wanted to quote something:

Some related readings from a UK dive magazine

"Call for better regulator servicing"

Britain's Diving industry has to response to the recent Health & Safty Executive (HSE) report. HSE evaluated equipment related to the fatal dive accidents between 2000 to 2003 in UK. 28 out of 60 regulators, after the accidents, have failed the European test, due to corrosion, incorrect setup and lack of correct servicing.

The articles briefly mentioned the normal procedure which would take at least 3 days, please refer to the original article if you are interested in knowing more detail. In Europe, they are aware of the issue, and their decision is to make the standard high.

 

[halocline]

This is an interesting topic; on one hand the shops make a ton of money on annual service, and it absolutely can add up to much more than the original reg cost quickly. The "free parts" bit is not much more than a ploy to get people into the shop to pay inflated service prices IMO. We're talking about parts that are extremely inexpensive to make and keep, and of course the industry loves this annual requirement as it ensures a constant flow of money....if I brought my MK2 to my overpriced LDS for annual service to keep the warranty, I'd spend at least twice what a new reg would cost in a few years. What kind of warranty is that, when it's cheaper to throw it out and buy a new one? The "value" of regulator warranties is VERY overrated IMO.

OTOH, my guess is that almost all problems that people have with reg performance is due to missing or poor service, so keeping your reg in good shape and tuning is critical to keeping it reliable and breathing as well as it should.

What's the most cost effective solution? I guess it would be 1) buy a fairly simple, easy to service reg with a stellar reputation for reliability, either used or new. If used figure in a complete rebuild into the price, and 2) find a good tech whose work you trust, forget about the warranty service and just bring the regs to him/her (anyone ever met a female reg tech?) when you feel they need it or at whatever interval you're comfortable with. A couple of problems with this scenario is that regs can groove a seat just sitting around, and often you might not find a problem with a reg until you're on vacation diving, which is a real bummer.

 

[redacted]

I'm not a professional, but I have been DIY reg service for the last 7 years. I am currently maintaining 8 regs for regular service plus a few others that I cleaned up and put away. I am convinced that, with good user service a reg can go 2 to 5 years between a major service. But it is still desirable to inspect, clean & lub as necessary, and adjust to maintain adequate performance. If a salt water diver fails to soak out the salt, encrustation and corrosion may not just damage o-ring but critical seating surfaces also. Generally speaking, the "annually replaced" soft parts and seats will last and provide adequate performance for much longer than a year. If you are going to extend the service interval, I suggest http://airspeedpress.com/newregbook.html and an IP guage. That is also a great start if you decide to go the DIY route.

 

[Meng_Tze]

To me there are two things:

The legal system will drill into the service history when an accident happens. If the reg was serviced according to manufacturer specs..... there is no litigation to them.. if it is not, the manufacturers can point at this and call in user responsibility. Since the manufacturers need to have a license (to manufacture and sell this equipment) from health and safety boards around the world, they also have an obligation to facilitate continued performance to these standards.... hence a warranty and service plan.

Second, any aparatus that has to sustain my life needs to work perfectly. If you open a reg after a year or whatever you will find: corrosion, moisture, green gunk etc. Even if you take good care of your reg, this stuff makes it in there... in ALL of them. The question is how much of this stuff is needed for a reg to start failing? Some more and some less..... but I will not wait to find out... I service my regs regularly. Not at annual intevals, but after number of hours used. This has worked for me and will continue to work in the future. ALL mechanical systems that have pressure,moisture, seals and moving parts need to be serviced. Unless of course you intend to replace it competely before MTBF (mean time before failure) is met....but MTBF is not posted by manufacturers....


Yes there is a lot of money made on servicing (on servicing anything as a matter of fact) and there are many 'service technicians' out there that just look inside a reg, determine it does not need to have seals etc replaced.... close ist, retune it and charge full service price. This can work...but not for me.

Try to find a shop that you can trust, watch the tech conduct the service, or learn to do it yourself......

My 2BAR

 

[Rick Murchison]

You can skip oil and filter changes until the engine starts running rough, too... a new car will probably last several years before it starts giving you any problems.
Have at it!
No one seems to whine about paying a mechanic $30 for the 15 - 20 minutes it takes to change the oil; why whine about paying a reg tech $30 for twice the time at the LDS? It never ceases to amaze me how many people think other people should work for nothing, especially in the dive industry.
Sheesh!
Rick

 

[David P]

This is an interesting topic; on one hand the shops make a ton of money on annual service, and it absolutely can add up to much more than the original reg cost quickly. The "free parts" bit is not much more than a ploy to get people into the shop to pay inflated service prices IMO.

if I brought my MK2 to my overpriced LDS for annual service to keep the warranty, I'd spend at least twice what a new reg would cost in a few years.

a ton of money? @ $25 a stage, a tech/shop has to rebuild a $h!t load of regs to make a ton of money. Ok, sure we may charge another $25 to check your depth gauge but damn those steel pressure pots to test your gear in cost about a grand! So lets look at that piece of equipment alone... ignore the compressor and the plumbing to get air to the test bench, and the regulator, and the high accuracy gauge.... $1000/$25 I have to check 40 consoles just to break even on one piece of equipment. What about the IP gauges, magnahelic gauges, flow meters (if used) misc specialty tools to rebuild your regs.... and OH YEAH the techs time and the costs of factory training and retraining. What about real estate on the square footage that the bench takes up and is not used to sell merchandise. The rent doesn't pay itself.
So lets say Scuba Pro does offer free parts for life as a gimick, I see you bought a MK2 reg. A good dependible reg geared for the beginer or budget minded buyer. Buy any other reg and chances are you will be paying more (would you realy something cheaper?) and youll be more for parts every year. I dont have any price lists in front of me, but I want to say the rebuild kits cost about $10 a stage. Concider how long a reg will last, @ $20 a year, SP would do better to not offer the free parts, but if youre saying they make it up in over inflate reg prices, you only paid $250! So you send in your first, second, and safe second for service one a year, $75, 150, 225, 300, 375 you have had your reg set rebuilt 5 times wich means 6 years of service and just doubled the price of your investment ($250 for MK 2.295 plus octo). If $75 a year costs to much for you maybe scuba just isn't for you. Perhaps a nice inexpesive hobby like putt-putt golf is in your future.

Does your reg NEED to be gone through every year, doubtfull. Is there scuba police that will arrest you if you dont, no way. Is the $25 a stage cheap peace of mind, I think so.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The scam isn't in the suggestion (or warrentee requirement) to service anually. The scam is in the attempt to force you to have a shop do the work. It's still not the biggest scam in the industry though.

 

[halocline]

You can skip oil and filter changes until the engine starts running rough, too... a new car will probably last several years before it starts giving you any problems.
Have at it!
No one seems to whine about paying a mechanic $30 for the 15 - 20 minutes it takes to change the oil; why whine about paying a reg tech $30 for twice the time at the LDS? It never ceases to amaze me how many people think other people should work for nothing, especially in the dive industry.
Sheesh!
Rick

Well, this analogy is a little silly, because the service on a new car is a tiny fraction of the cost of the car, where the service on a reg can easily exceed the cost of the reg over the long haul. If it cost as much to service a new car for 3-5 years as buying a new one, lots of people would skip the service and just buy the new car. (Maybe they still do that!) And, BTW, nobody is suggesting that the dive shop employees or any "other people" should work for free, at least I didn't intend to imply that from my post. I'm just questioning whether it's worth it to annually service a reg when the cost exceeds that of a new reg. And, in the case of my LDS, service prices ARE inflated; it would cost me about $250 to service both my reg sets; which is about what I paid for each of them. (new MK2, used MK15/G250)

Of course the LDS has a financial interest in keeping customers coming into the shop for annual service, much in the same way a car dealer has an interest in keeping car owners coming in. If my first post on this thread has a bit of cynicsm, it's due to the attitude of my LDS, which is "spend or get lost!" I'm not trying to slam LDSs for charging for service, I'm just questioning if it's cost effective. (balanced with a realistic and rational approach to safe diving)

My way of dealing with it was to find a tech who's work I trust, send him my regs, and be done with it.