Regulator malfunction is not a normal occurrance at 130 ft. Narcosis is.
Regulator malfunction or just a normal occurance at 130ft?
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mpgunner
Contributor
Though I don't have a bunch of dives I have been to 120+ a bunch of times with my buddies (including a Deep Diver specialtiy with several dives to 130) and no one had reg problems. Just a bunch of fun.
beester
Contributor
I'm going to start for my Assistent Instructor cert... and one of the requirements is having done 30 +120 feet dives. So over the last year (and in the near future since I'm going to do deep wrecks on the french riviera) I've been diving from time to time deep up to 160 feet.
As said by many.. it's probably a diver issue and not a regulator issue. I've dived an ancient (50 year old) 1 stage mistral up to 130 feet without issue... it's not my main setup but it's can be done. My normal setup is a SP MK17/G250V but my backup reg is a old scubapro MK5/R109 (20 + years old) unbalanced regulator. I dive it since it's fully metal (good in cold water) and virtually bulletproof (which I like in a backup).
I was not there but I recognise the symptoms because it happened to me too one time. Narcosis symptoms are mostly regarded as the 'shiny happy people feelings' but they can also turn in paranoia and discomfort (dark narc) if something goes wrong.
In my circumstances I was doing a dive in a local estuary. Vis was not very good (about 10 feet) and we were quite deep (around 120 feet). There is a big tidal current so we dived at slack tide. However we probably miscalculated slack and tide came up much sooner then expected (when we were still deep). My mistake was (probably induced by narcosis) to strat finning against current instead of from time to time grabbing the rocks to pull me further. I overbreathed and paranoia together with the feeling I'm not getting enough air started to overwhelm me. After a while my buddy realised that I was overbreathing (you can hear it) and pulled me to the bottow to calm me down. So we waited a min until my breathing was calm again and slowly made our way up again.
In short what happens is the following.. something triggers you to start breathing more rapidly. (this can be physical excertion, task overloading, a big scare, etc).. by breathing more rapidly at depth you are excerting yourself even more because of the workload of breathing (so your demand for oxygen increases), at the same time you start to breath more shallow. This induces CO2 retention. Which in turn will trigger the body to get more oxygen and gives you the 'I can't get no air' feeling. And the circle starts again... Combine this with narcosis and you're on your way for a full emergency!
The only way to break this is (and this sounds contraproductive) Calm down... breath less!! Breath more slowly!! And most important focus on breathing out fully. This will break the circle as you will remove more CO2 from your system and will immediatly have the effect that you do not feel out of breath any more.
In french they call this 'ensoufflement'... and it's a serious incident that can be very dangerous.
As said by many.. it's probably a diver issue and not a regulator issue. I've dived an ancient (50 year old) 1 stage mistral up to 130 feet without issue... it's not my main setup but it's can be done. My normal setup is a SP MK17/G250V but my backup reg is a old scubapro MK5/R109 (20 + years old) unbalanced regulator. I dive it since it's fully metal (good in cold water) and virtually bulletproof (which I like in a backup).
I was not there but I recognise the symptoms because it happened to me too one time. Narcosis symptoms are mostly regarded as the 'shiny happy people feelings' but they can also turn in paranoia and discomfort (dark narc) if something goes wrong.
In my circumstances I was doing a dive in a local estuary. Vis was not very good (about 10 feet) and we were quite deep (around 120 feet). There is a big tidal current so we dived at slack tide. However we probably miscalculated slack and tide came up much sooner then expected (when we were still deep). My mistake was (probably induced by narcosis) to strat finning against current instead of from time to time grabbing the rocks to pull me further. I overbreathed and paranoia together with the feeling I'm not getting enough air started to overwhelm me. After a while my buddy realised that I was overbreathing (you can hear it) and pulled me to the bottow to calm me down. So we waited a min until my breathing was calm again and slowly made our way up again.
In short what happens is the following.. something triggers you to start breathing more rapidly. (this can be physical excertion, task overloading, a big scare, etc).. by breathing more rapidly at depth you are excerting yourself even more because of the workload of breathing (so your demand for oxygen increases), at the same time you start to breath more shallow. This induces CO2 retention. Which in turn will trigger the body to get more oxygen and gives you the 'I can't get no air' feeling. And the circle starts again... Combine this with narcosis and you're on your way for a full emergency!
The only way to break this is (and this sounds contraproductive) Calm down... breath less!! Breath more slowly!! And most important focus on breathing out fully. This will break the circle as you will remove more CO2 from your system and will immediatly have the effect that you do not feel out of breath any more.
In french they call this 'ensoufflement'... and it's a serious incident that can be very dangerous.
Well, there are many possibilities. I see a few problems that contribute to mistakes.
1. you seem to be a holiday diver. This contributes to rusty skills and problem-solving abilities.
2. 130 feet is 39.62 meters.... You are at the outer edge of recreational, no-deco diving. This is not a good thing for seasonal divers.
3. At almost 40 meters, you are breathing very dense air and you are going to suck it down fast.
You were in warm waters. There is no reason for reg malfunction. The fact that your friend seemed to feel hard draws on both 2nd stage and octo makes me wonder if it was perception at breathing dense air that deep? A bit of narcosis in the equation, and you have a problem brewing.
Granted, rental high at a high volume resort will have wear and tear.
My advice- refresh and practice skills often, plan a shallower, more realistic dive and have your own gear. Good luck.
1. you seem to be a holiday diver. This contributes to rusty skills and problem-solving abilities.
2. 130 feet is 39.62 meters.... You are at the outer edge of recreational, no-deco diving. This is not a good thing for seasonal divers.
3. At almost 40 meters, you are breathing very dense air and you are going to suck it down fast.
You were in warm waters. There is no reason for reg malfunction. The fact that your friend seemed to feel hard draws on both 2nd stage and octo makes me wonder if it was perception at breathing dense air that deep? A bit of narcosis in the equation, and you have a problem brewing.
Granted, rental high at a high volume resort will have wear and tear.
My advice- refresh and practice skills often, plan a shallower, more realistic dive and have your own gear. Good luck.
Very good list of reasons for the most part.When was the last time the regulators been serviced? Good example for owning your own gear,I assume regulators used had been rentals.No regulator I ever used failed to perform safely at depth ,just some performed better than others at depth with a work load on them.I have used low end and high end regulators .
joe27march
Guest
I'm going with narcosis and/or rental gear.
The post reads like a classic text book example of narcosis. Definitely not a regulator malfunction.
Yes air is slightly harder to breathe at 30m than at the surface but with any modern regulator it will still supply more air than you could ever want.
Its narcosis which caused hyperventillation, which caused CO2 retention which made the narcosis worse and started panic.
Yes air is slightly harder to breathe at 30m than at the surface but with any modern regulator it will still supply more air than you could ever want.
Its narcosis which caused hyperventillation, which caused CO2 retention which made the narcosis worse and started panic.
In which case you're narked. Laws of physics take over.
At 47m that air is near 5 times denser than it is at the surface so cannot possibly flow as smoothly - it does require more breathing effort to get the gas in.
Try a chamber dive some time, when you get down to 50m try waving your arms about. Feel the resistance and then realise that "thick" air is what your reg (any reg) is giving you at that same depth in water.
CamG
Contributor
Greetings Chicara 93 and your questions are very important! You need to feel very confident and believe in your gear. That is why I am a big believer in owning and servicing your gear on a regular basis.
Considering a 130' dive, Blue hole or not I would recommend a Deep diving specialty coarse. This will educate and prepare you to handle deep dives. I know, that had I not been properly trained for the exact problem your friend suffered a 130' I would have felt the same way!
While doing a dive for Deep diver Spec. I had a dive that this issue arose. Like instructed I relaxed, regained breathing control, continued the dive no more problems.
It is particularly dangerous to dive deep when improperly prepared; "TRAINED" there are issues that will arise; "NARCOSIS" that will hinder rational thinking.
Thus the importance of being prepared. I feel for your friends as I was going to the Blue Hole myself just after my AOW certification with less than 40 dives in. Had it not been for my instructor here in IN. cautioning me and explaining why it was not a good idea, it could have been me. It happens to new divers all the time some survive it but quit diving as a result. I wish the dive operators who take divers out there were more cautious but the divers themselves need to assume responsibility as well.
So I am relieved you have chosen to do some research to educate yourself about diving deep. This is a great place to start your education!
Take your time to study, train for diving deep safely, sign up for Deep specialty, and have fun. Be able to enjoy your dives and work up to diving deeper.
The water will be there when you are ready and take it form me when you are confidently prepared it is so unbelievably awesome! Please keep us posted on your progress!
CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!
Considering a 130' dive, Blue hole or not I would recommend a Deep diving specialty coarse. This will educate and prepare you to handle deep dives. I know, that had I not been properly trained for the exact problem your friend suffered a 130' I would have felt the same way!
While doing a dive for Deep diver Spec. I had a dive that this issue arose. Like instructed I relaxed, regained breathing control, continued the dive no more problems.
It is particularly dangerous to dive deep when improperly prepared; "TRAINED" there are issues that will arise; "NARCOSIS" that will hinder rational thinking.
Thus the importance of being prepared. I feel for your friends as I was going to the Blue Hole myself just after my AOW certification with less than 40 dives in. Had it not been for my instructor here in IN. cautioning me and explaining why it was not a good idea, it could have been me. It happens to new divers all the time some survive it but quit diving as a result. I wish the dive operators who take divers out there were more cautious but the divers themselves need to assume responsibility as well.
So I am relieved you have chosen to do some research to educate yourself about diving deep. This is a great place to start your education!
Take your time to study, train for diving deep safely, sign up for Deep specialty, and have fun. Be able to enjoy your dives and work up to diving deeper.
The water will be there when you are ready and take it form me when you are confidently prepared it is so unbelievably awesome! Please keep us posted on your progress!
CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!
