Regulator service: acceptable treatment?

[Peter69_56]

This is false. There is a price the shop wants to sell at and there is a price the buyer is willing to pay. If both prices match then a transaction occurs and if they don't then it doesn't. A customer cannot screw a service provider into bankruptcy because the provider can always say no. A customer can also say no IF he is given the actual price before the transaction occurs. BUT if the provider mislead the customer about the price then a transaction occurs which should not have.

---------- Post added April 19th, 2014 at 02:12 PM ----------



I thought the reg actually fell apart not that it just failed.

if the provider is desperate for business, they may be tempted to sell at less than the required profit margin to stay in business. Trying to create cash flow. Seen it happen in a number of industries where the business is struggling. People do silly things in desperate times.

Yes that's what happened to me regarding the wing/tank hire. It was suggested to me by the instructor he could get some gear from the LDS for the course. I trusted him and that the gear would be hired out at the normal sort of rates. It wasn't until the end of the course and I went to pay that I was given the $300 hire cost for 2 days hire.


Yes the end of the reg fell off, the environmental seal and cap along with spacer rings.

Also not all the O rings were replaced with Viton O rings. Some were still the Nitrile O rings, I suspect as they were odd sizes. The reg is an AquaLung Legend. In the end port it has an O ring that when measured is 11mm ID and 2mm thick, not an imperial O ring and it was still the Nitrile, also inside there is a flat O ring with a concave face (backup O ring), this too is Nitrile. I suspect no one makes them in Viton it would be a special O ring.

On that note, what about the diaphragm? We are taught in O2 Clean class that all items must be non Nitrile/rubber as they are fire risk, yet the reg diaphragm is made of what appears to be a rubber compound, along with this special flat O ring.

Thus my query is; should only piston regs be used for 100% O2 on the basis that all components can then be Viton (as all sealing components are O ring in design?). If so, why then do LDS supposedly O2 clean regs that should not be used for 100% O2? Why do O2 clean courses not say this?

 

[josb]

Regulator service

Forgive me my poor English.
Until now I only was a reader on this forum but I couldn’t withstand to give a reaction on this thread.

Normal service (for me) involves stripping the regulator down to component parts, US cleaning and de-greasing until pristine, discarding all service parts and replacing them with new from the service kit, rebuilding, re-lubing and adjusting per manufacturer's guide. That comes at a standard price.

Until here I agree, we do the same.

Some regulators need more cleaning than others, so what? What you gain in some you lose in others - no need to charge extra for a process that can be as complex as adding another 15 minutes onto the US bath timer.

Let me show some pictures and ask the question if you think this looks like it’s been used as supposed. For this kind of sh.. yes we charge extra for cleaning and as you can imagine the Apeks octo+ on the last picture was “a little bit” more difficult to dismantle than usual.

If it doesn't come in a service kit, it doesn't get replaced. If it needs replaced then I contact the customer and let them know the extra cost and ask if they want me to proceed. Minor items that won't necessarily affect the operation on the regulator get noted on the service report form that accompanies every regulator back to the customer along with the replaced parts.

Disagree on the first line. We check the set when the customer brings it in, a hole in or bitten off part of a mouthpiece is something to replace, a worn hose e.g. cracked around the first stage or the outer shell comes out of the clamp, probably the customer also has seen tis or we show it to him/hir.
No doubt it will be changed and we will ask on forehand what to do if we find other flaws or defects.

"extra cleaning" is a complete farce. You *always* clean a regulator during service. "Extra" cleaning implies that they don't usually "fully" clean the regulator, which is (a) simply untrue and (b) just a vulgar manner of legal pick-pocketing.

As you can see on the pictures this is what we call not normal and yes this costs so much extra time and effort that it’s worth the extra costs, but this is exceptional.

… Personally, I trust my tech. If he replaces a hose because he had some doubts about it, then I'm only happy that I have tech whose eye for detail is good and who has my best interests at heart. After all, that's why I take my regulator in for service...

There are of course times that we call the customer and ask what to do but a set is never leaving the shop with a failed component on it!
If we have a customer with a very old/worn set from what we know the performance will never be close to the performance of the today’s sets, with combinations of different hoses worn, chrome peeling, we will advise to buy a new set instead of expensive service.

What I wonder is the service reports that the shops in your Countries use, what’s in these reports, how do they look like? Do you get them on forehand so you can see what’s planned to do on the service and does it show afterwards what has been done?

Does anyone can show me such a service report?
Is it possible to scan an upload some of them here?

 

[Hickdive]

Disagree on the first line. We check the set when the customer brings it in, a hole in or bitten off part of a mouthpiece is something to replace, a worn hose e.g. cracked around the first stage or the outer shell comes out of the clamp, probably the customer also has seen tis or we show it to him/hir.

I appreciate English isn't your first language but if your read my very next line you'll see I actually do the same as you.

---------- Post added July 11th, 2014 at 09:25 PM ----------

View attachment 188559View attachment 188560View attachment 188561View attachment 188562

That is excessively dirty. However, I would be very surprised if my normal cleaning solutions didn't clear that up with a bit of extra time.

---------- Post added July 11th, 2014 at 09:30 PM ----------

What I wonder is the service reports that the shops in your Countries use, what’s in these reports, how do they look like? Do you get them on forehand so you can see what’s planned to do on the service and does it show afterwards what has been done?

Does anyone can show me such a service report?
Is it possible to scan an upload some of them here?

Didn't your service training give you some examples?

 

[redacted]

Let me show some pictures and ask the question if you think this looks like it’s been used as supposed. For this kind of sh.. yes we charge extra for cleaning and as you can imagine the Apeks octo+ on the last picture was “a little bit” more difficult to dismantle than usual.

View attachment 188559View attachment 188560View attachment 188561View attachment 188562



Disagree on the first line. We check the set when the customer brings it in, a hole in or bitten off part of a mouthpiece is something to replace, a worn hose e.g. cracked around the first stage or the outer shell comes out of the clamp, probably the customer also has seen tis or we show it to him/hir.
No doubt it will be changed and we will ask on forehand what to do if we find other flaws or defects.



As you can see on the pictures this is what we call not normal and yes this costs so much extra time and effort that it’s worth the extra costs, but this is exceptional.



There are of course times that we call the customer and ask what to do but a set is never leaving the shop with a failed component on it!
If we have a customer with a very old/worn set from what we know the performance will never be close to the performance of the today’s sets, with combinations of different hoses worn, chrome peeling, we will advise to buy a new set instead of expensive service.

What I wonder is the service reports that the shops in your Countries use, what’s in these reports, how do they look like? Do you get them on forehand so you can see what’s planned to do on the service and does it show afterwards what has been done?

Does anyone can show me such a service report?
Is it possible to scan an upload some of them here?

While that R190 is ugly, it is just silt that should wash/brush off quite easily. Yes, it will be an additional bath so as not to foul the detergent rinse bath; but it is not that much extra work. It would make more sense to have different service prices based on brands and designs.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Warm soapy water soak for 15 minutes and a soft toothbrush would take care of that silty mess just fine....

But imagine being a dental hygienist and being told to do a cleaning on that diver's teeth???

Best wishes.

 

[josb]

Yea of course a warm bath did wonders to this R190 and yes it's just a 15 min extra time but time is money, we try to keep our service prices as low as possible but that's only possible if you allow yourself to charge extra for the annoyance of someone bringing in such a dirty set!

The other picture of the Octo+ took more than 1 hour to get it dismantled, several extra baths in the US, Dremel tools to get the inside clean to pull out the seat.
Same goes for your car when you bring it in for work, the mechanic will charge you his hour rate, if everything goes smooth it's an easy job if he has difficulties to unscrew parts because you are driving through deep mud and bring in a trashy car ooo yes, he will charge you extra.

For the service reports, no until now I didn't receive examples of reports from the training facilities here in the Netherlands.
What we do is make a small report from the front desk to the workshop together with the customer on which it describes the work that should be done, the front desk is also technically involved and knows where to look at and talk about. Things like tears or holes in mouthpieces of damaged hoses are quickly found and marked.

At the end we show the customer the box with his set, all the old parts, the blister packs of the original service kits and next to that the same report added with the possible extra things we found, e.g. a new mouth piece, a swivel in the mano or a new valve in the inflator hose or maybe we find cracks under the hose covers and we renew a HP or MP hose, that’s called service.
We never had customers that doubted the conclusion of the mechanic and we (until now) were always capable of convincing the customer that we changed things for his safety and they paid the bill.

The old stuff like O-rings, seats, membranes, hoses, swivels, valves, all disappear in front of the customer in our trash bin, they never go back with the customer!

So I’m wondering what kind of reports can be written and what could be more in that, you do a service according the specifications of the manufacturer.

 

[Peter69_56]

To add to my woes, I went to use the deco set 3 weeks ago and when I took it out the secondary reg retainer ring fell off. Given it had recently been serviced the end result sucks. I suspect when it was serviced they managed to strip the reg cover retaining ring thread. Now I propose to bin it and buy a new reg set already clean. I might also point out that the reg set was in good condition prior to the service and clean as I had checked it so they could not use the excuse that it was in a bad state.

in hindsite I would have been better off buying a new reg up front. Anyway the service effort from this lDS sucks and I now recommend everyone go elsewhere.