Resort Discover Scuba Debate

[Jeff Toorish]

I think resort courses are fine as an introduction. I believe you can roll the resort course into a full OW certification course, as well. So if she overcomes her trepidation, she can more directly from the resort course into OW. If she discovers scuba is not for her, so be it.

I've been on dives where instructors and dive masters had resort course divers with them and they seemed relatively safe to me. I'd prefer there was a bit more theory involved, but clearly that is the reason for the resort course --to get people in the water without a lot of classroom work.

As for your friend who asked, 'how often does that happen?' my answer would have been, "realistically not all that often. But, of course, it only has to happen once to you." Needless to say, it is exactly his attitude that leads to tragedy.

Jeff

 

[Sas]

However, since you're highly unlikely to know who a good instructor is at a destination dive spot

Why would you assume this? One can question a resort on how it runs Discover Scuba classes in advance and work out whether they run things to your liking. I would expect that people would do this in general (as friends/colleagues have) I travelled with my non-diving partner earlier in the year on a diving trip and spent some time talking via telephone with the dive shop owner to satisfy myself that the class would be safe for my boyfriend. I mean in the end he got a cold so it never happened but next diving trip away I will do the same again as he is just not willing to invest any more money/time into diving before he knows if he will like it.

I personally dislike snorkelling and do not find it comparable to diving so I would not consider them close substitutes as an introduction. I know others do, of course, but to each their own.

I think given I would want my boyfriend (or other friends/family) to do quite an involved OW course (i.e. well beyond standards) should he want to continue diving, it makes sense for him to do a Discover Dive to see if he likes it at all before investing money and time into a long OW course.

 

[Gombessa]

Why would you assume this?

Because it's how I've seen it work in a number of cases (please note that I didn't say that there are unlikely to be any good instructors, just that people new to diving likely won't know what to look for). You go on vacation, and want to try something new. A lot of times, you just default to what's there, without doing (or knowing to do) the research that's really merited. If I rented a jetski or signed up for parasailing at a resort, I *might* look at the several closest options and compare price, but probably not much more. I certainly wouldn't know what kind of safety or red flags to look out for with a wholly unfamiliar activity.

From what I've seen, Discover Scuba often works with (and seems almost designed for) this kind of impulse decision. I've been waiting for a number of charters and watched people come in and ask about joining the DS with absolutely no idea about what diving, Discover Scuba, any concept of certification, the shop's reputation or the faculty of its instructors/staff is.

I think it's sometimes easy for regular divers like you or me to overlook the lack of knowledge/preparation that the average DS diver goes through. If I'm there in person and can have a hand in vetting the shop and explaining the ins and outs, my response would be different. But if a co-worker says to me, "I'm going to Roatan tomorrow and am interested in Discover Scuba," I don't see how anyone who hasn't already been there could presume to know anything about who is or isn't a good instructor or operator in that location. Given that, my recommendation would be to take a certification course before diving.

 

[Sas]

Because it's how I've seen it work in a number of cases (please note that I didn't say that there are unlikely to be any good instructors, just that people new to diving likely won't know what to look for). You go on vacation, and want to try something new. A lot of times, you just default to what's there, without doing (or knowing to do) the research that's really merited. If I rented a jetski or signed up for parasailing at a resort, I *might* look at the several closest options and compare price, but probably not much more. I certainly wouldn't know what kind of safety or red flags to look out for with a wholly unfamiliar activity.

From what I've seen, Discover Scuba often works with (and seems almost designed for) this kind of impulse decision. I've been waiting for a number of charters and watched people come in and ask about joining the DS with absolutely no idea about what diving, Discover Scuba, any concept of certification, the shop's reputation or the faculty of its instructors/staff is.

I think it's sometimes easy for regular divers like you or me to overlook the lack of knowledge/preparation that the average DS diver goes through. If I'm there in person and can have a hand in vetting the shop and explaining the ins and outs, my response would be different. But if a co-worker says to me, "I'm going to Roatan tomorrow and am interested in Discover Scuba," I don't see how anyone who hasn't already been there could presume to know anything about who is or isn't a good instructor or operator in that location. Given that, my recommendation would be to take a certification course before diving.

Yes I can see the points you are making and perhaps they do apply to impulse Discover Scuba dives - the lack of knowledge about diving safety. However, is there any kind of stats to backup the notion that this kind of introduction to diving is more dangerous than starting with OW even considering this? I have no idea, so just wondering if anyone has anything to back this up as you have said it does not seem sufficiently safe.

The case of the OP is a bit different though to what you are describing as they are a diver and can advise this women appropriately so she should have a bit of knowledge for what to look out for if she decides to do a Discover Scuba dive. If your colleague asks you about diving, (and in fact one of my team members at work did a Discover Scuba dive in Thailand recently and asked me about it before she left so I have been in this situation) you could advise them about what to ask the resort though (even if you did not have knowledge about the resort itself). If you prefer to recommend courses, (which is actually my first recommendation but most people are just not interested in forking out that much cash before they've even tried something) that's cool but the alternative does not seem like it is going to be very dangerous to warrant a lot of concern. But happy to be corrected if there have been many issues...

 

[Gombessa]

However, is there any kind of stats to backup the notion that this kind of introduction to diving is more dangerous than starting with OW even considering this? I have no idea, so just wondering if anyone has anything to back this up as you have said it does not seem sufficiently safe.

I don't know of any stats myself either way, nor can I positively say firsthand what the potential consequences or dangers are versus certification. But I do know the instruction/lecture time and confined water/skills time is tremendously greater in a certification course. Both of these are why my default position is to err on the conservative side.

The case of the OP is a bit different though to what you are describing as they are a diver and can advise this women appropriately so she should have a bit of knowledge for what to look out for if she decides to do a Discover Scuba dive.

Well, part of my hypothetical is that yes, I am a diver trying to advise/help out, and I still really don't know what to look for in a good discover scuba operator. It took me several months to even figure out which of the several LDSes in my area was the right one, and after 2 years, I still haven't taken any classes or chartered any trips through them. I certainly don't know their quality of instruction/mentorship, and in the same vein, I don't know with great detail what goes into a Discover Scuba course, what constitutes a good course, or even if a good course by consensus would meet (perhaps it greatly exceeds) my standards and expectations. For me, this derth of knowledge isn't going to be alleviated with a few cursory questions or phone calls. But I do know that my certification class was already an order of magnitude longer and more detailed than a typical discover scuba program, and I know I was in no real condition to be out in the water, planning my own dives even after "earning" my certification. That adds to my concern about advocating a DS program.

I completely accept that others may have different opinions of perceived risk and/or different risk profiles, and I'm not trying to argue that. I do tend towards being risk adverse, and that definitely colors my decisions and opinions. I just believe, from what I've seen, that I wouldn't want myself or my loved ones to "try scuba" for the first time with one of these programs, so I wouldn't just change the calculus for an acquaintance. I fully respect that others disagree with this position.

 

[Doc]

I think both arguements make very valid points, but it is all going to boil down to your friends personality, desires, and budget.... but it is going to depennd on what your friend wants, and whether this is something they want to devote time and money into, if its a passing fancy the resort may fulfill the need... but it is going to depend on what they want to get out of it, a one time carnival ride, or a major alteration in lifestyle, or maybe somewhere in between, either way just be cool and encouraging.....

Good observation and well said. More important to see that first- rather than concentrating on all the rest of the debate here.

 

[Sharkbully]

I appreciate everyone's input. I have read each post carefully, and I will incorporate much of these into my response. I am still not 100% convinced, but these posts have eased some of my concerns.
Perhaps, it is because I read all the Accidents & incidents here and on other boards, and I read the SD Mag's lesson's for life religiously. I do all this so that I might learn and also inform my wife so that she will learn.

Also, from personal experience, my wife has twice had to deal with a stuck inflator, and once had regulator issues at depth. Her training kicked in and she calmly dealt with each incident. Probably much calmer than I would have responded. It is probably her experience as an OR nurse that helped her to stay calm. But she did have the training on how to responde to these emergencies which a DS student will not get.

I was not aware that the DS course had a one to one ratio where the instructor "held the student's hand." If this is the case, then, I would be comfortable with it.

Thanks everyone.

 

[robint]

because of the close supervision, discover scuba / resort dives are pretty safe

you have to remember, you're not really diving. someone is basically holding your hand the whole time, even adjusting your bouyancy if needed

Maybe...... but possibly NOT! It depends where you do the Resort Course.

Example 1: We used to regularly go to Cozumel, and met quite a few people from another chat board in the process. Well, one year we met a girl who had been diving for several years. She brought her new boyfriend on this trip and had him do a Resort course. We met up with them and several others for dinner one night at a Coz restaurant and she told us how great he did on his Resort Course the first day so now they let him do Devil's Throat today! Us and two other couples all about choked on our food! Yes, he wasn't even certified, just 1 day doing Resort Course, and that dive op took him over 100' down through a swimthru, and into deco.

Example 2: Also, from groups on Cozumel... we met a guy and his 2 sons. They go to Cozumel every summer for a week, do the Resort Course, then do the rest of the weeks diving with that dive op just like they were Certified. Good? In my opinion, no. But he liked it as it was "cheaper" to him. He didn't care about learning all the stuff or getting the card, he said. This was with a different dive op than Example 1.

Example 3: This in Hawaii. My boss several years ago (before I went to work for him) was on vacation with his family. He wanted to do the Resort course at his hotel. They took them in the pool for 30 minutes then out into the ocean for a dive. Well, my boss didn't quite get the ear thing, didn't equalize right, and blew his eardrum within a few minutes of the dive. He ended up at ER, ruined his vacation, and said he would never do the diving thing again. If he had been in an OW course, he would have had lots of classroom time discussing why we clear our ears, and then time in pool to practice... he might be a diver now, too.

This is just 3 examples of why I NEVER recommend Resort Courses on vacation.

robin

 

[Rhone Man]

I am a big believer in resort courses/DSD programmes.

It is just "try before you buy". It is a good way for able bodied people to try scuba on holiday in a safe and benign environment before deciding whether they want to go further or not.

 

[Cajun_B]

We recently went to the Carribean and had the opprotunity to do the resort SCUBA lesson but opted out because I was not comfortible with the saftey issues. We decided then to take a course and get certified in the states. So the next time we go to the Carribnean we will be ready!

Bryon