Rote Learning vs. Understanding Concepts

[Ytsejam]

My OW group comprised 4 candidates with ages ranging from 16 to 52, from different backgrounds and of varying education. We were all absolute beginners.

We all had to be shown the proper way to assemble our gear. Our instructor taught us to put the SPG face down on the ground, cover it with our boot, push either second stage purge button and then open the valve. I will not disagree that an explosion is highly unlikely, but I believe that when one teaches beginners the essentials of safe sightseeing in a hostile environment, it's good to see them go down the cautious path. The youngster accepted the demonstration without asking questions, but the rest of us didn't and the instructor was more than happy to elaborate on our questions.

My point is that when you start learning from scratch and safety issues are involved, it's important to learn the "how" before worrying about the "why". Once that's done, you can be as inquisitive as you want (and I am one to drive an instructor to despair with questions).

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Reading back, it was your buddy who didn't want an answer to his question. I find it odd that you conclude that this is the industry's fault or the instructor's fault. If your buddy is too lazy to want to become a knowledgable diver than I have another suggestion for who is responsible for that.....

R..

Knowing the person you're referring to ... having had her as a student for one of my AOW classes ... I can assure you she's anything but "too lazy to want to become a knowledgeable diver". In fact, of the people I've taken through that same class, I can think of very few who put as much effort, and asked as many questions, as she did. So I not only find your comment insulting ... but very, very much in error.

She didn't say she didn't want an answer ... she said she wanted an answer she could comprehend. Different people tend to "hear" and learn in different ways..

Trying to teach a loved one brings it's own difficulties to any lesson plan ... relationships tend to get in the way of the learning process. I think that was more the difficulty here than the student's desire to learn ...

As per the OP learner - crabbiness, or asking to learn in bullet points either indicates laziness, or disguising some type of learning difficulty.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong ... which just goes to show how easy it is to misjudge people (usually too harshly) on the Internet. There are lots of people out there for whom learning scuba does not come easily (I happen to be one of them). Some few of those put extraordinary effort into it ... and in most cases are overly self-critical. Often on the Internet that can come across in ways that do not represent the reality.

Of the hundreds of students I've taught over the past few years, I would put the person you're referring to in the top few percentile of students who have put the most effort into learning to do things correctly. So it does peeve me to see you and Rob judging her so harshly ... mostly because if you knew her in person you would realize that she's exactly the type of student you WANT in your classes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

Yeah, what is it about you, Bob, that you attract neurotic, perfectionist women as students? (Betty, Barb, me . . . )

 

[Mr.X]

Knowing the person you're referring to ... having had her as a student for one of my AOW classes ... I can assure you she's anything but "too lazy to want to become a knowledgeable diver". In fact, of the people I've taken through that same class, I can think of very few who put as much effort, and asked as many questions, as she did. So I not only find your comment insulting ... but very, very much in error.

She didn't say she didn't want an answer ... she said she wanted an answer she could comprehend. Different people tend to "hear" and learn in different ways..

Trying to teach a loved one brings it's own difficulties to any lesson plan ... relationships tend to get in the way of the learning process. I think that was more the difficulty here than the student's desire to learn ...


You couldn't possibly be more wrong ... which just goes to show how easy it is to misjudge people (usually too harshly) on the Internet. There are lots of people out there for whom learning scuba does not come easily (I happen to be one of them). Some few of those put extraordinary effort into it ... and in most cases are overly self-critical. Often on the Internet that can come across in ways that do not represent the reality.

Of the hundreds of students I've taught over the past few years, I would put the person you're referring to in the top few percentile of students who have put the most effort into learning to do things correctly. So it does peeve me to see you and Rob judging her so harshly ... mostly because if you knew her in person you would realize that she's exactly the type of student you WANT in your classes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob - I've heard terrific things about you from someone we know mutually. Greetings.

That being said I'm using information from the OP's initial post to form an opinion. Yes. It's an internet opinion. Nothing more, no intent to insult. The info. we typically receive here is secondary in nature - and as such is subject to much interpretation from both sides of the web page. Never truly valid. So, don't take it personally - which is hard if you are a caring instructor.

What's interesting and informative to others here is the fact that she is pushing for differentiated learning - meaning instructing in a manner where she can best assimilate the information. This begs a parallel question - how competent, or capable was the person (OP) "trying" to transfer knowledge?

If you have a student who shows that type of desire to learn - then we have a invested and empowered student which is a wonderful gift to anyone who teaches. She is, or will become a terrific diver. So, the exchange of intellectual information here on my end is theoretical in nature, not meaning to offend.

Cheers,

X

 

[Diver0001]

Knowing the person you're referring to ... having had her as a student for one of my AOW classes ... I can assure you she's anything but "too lazy to want to become a knowledgeable diver". In fact, of the people I've taken through that same class, I can think of very few who put as much effort, and asked as many questions, as she did. So I not only find your comment insulting ... but very, very much in error.

OK Bob, don't misread me. I based that statement on the only information I had, namely the OP, where he seemed to be suggesting that the agency's sinister commerical motives somehow made this person not want an explanation....

I was just offering him some push back. Obviously none of this has anything to do with you.

R..

 

[boulderjohn]

That being said, PADI's ed. system with modular courses made me laugh. They're created by instructional designers to cover a wide range of instructor abilities in what is, or was a "stand and deliver" format. What was equally funny was being evaluated by non-educator course directors based on a "stand and deliver" modular format of instruction. Nothing like marketing executives, real estate brokers, boat captains, store owners without a basic ground in the tenets of learning evaluating others using a simple PADI-ape evaluation rubric.

What? My profession is educational theory, but I do not understand what you are saying here.

 

[oreocookie]

The problem with absorbing a procedure without understanding why that procedure is prescribed is that you will not recognize a situation where that procedure does not pertain, or may even be hazardous.

My point is that when you start learning from scratch and safety issues are involved, it's important to learn the "how" before worrying about the "why". Once that's done, you can be as inquisitive as you want (and I am one to drive an instructor to despair with questions).

I think the thing is that the beginning of open water manuals (padi anyway, haven't read others, but assume they're roughly similar in this) give a sense that diving is safe provided you follow all the "rules"; if you don't, you'll get hurt or die. Some students will read read this and decide that EVERYTHING has to be applied to the letter the way they were taught, and they may not even consider whether it makes sense to do so in the situation (TSandM's low air safety stop example). Don't hold you breath; check. Do a safety stop; check. Assemble gear this way: step 1; check... Others will realise variations of the "rules" exist. I was shown 2 ways to hold the SPG while opening the valve, but both amount to holding the gauge face away from me.

If a museum tour guide says "walk this way" and then walks funny, if you haven't been there before, you may not know if he's walking funny for a reason and you should too or if you should just follow him.

 

[tomboyy]

I leave my SPG clipped to my left upper D-ring facing up when I pressurize cause I'm a danger seeker that and what most others have mention about it not really being a issue .

And to whoever mentioned something about the truck tail gate.... I resemble that remark and and have on occassions left it down and now because of your remark, I will have to look it up when I get home and waste valuble time cause you told me it didn't work but didn't explain WHY :cool2:

 

[Thalassamania]

The reason why a lot of folks hated school is because no one took the time to differentiate the instruction for the student. That means - taking the time to know the learner and tailoring the instruction to fit their needs. Heck, teach high school just using athletics? Why not?

It's the economics that do that and at the end of the day you often get disgruntled people who cannot articulate why they hated school other than it was boring. Which sadly, it often is. So, in the US we spend damn tax money to do the same crap classroom instruction over and over again. What's good about scuba is that the learner is typically paying good money for their elective choice. So, there is already an investment in the subject material.

As per the OP learner - crabbiness, or asking to learn in bullet points either indicates laziness, or disguising some type of learning difficulty. I'll preach this till I die - "there is always the time to learn how to do something right."

Additionally Ro - Cheers.

X

I do Math Interventions (teaching the kids who didn't get it the first time around) as well as Gifted and Talented. It is amazing how easily kids will learn sports statistics: where they come from, how they are calculated, what they mean, etc.

My OW group comprised 4 candidates with ages ranging from 16 to 52, from different backgrounds and of varying education. We were all absolute beginners.

We all had to be shown the proper way to assemble our gear. Our instructor taught us to put the SPG face down on the ground, cover it with our boot, push either second stage purge button and then open the valve. I will not disagree that an explosion is highly unlikely, but I believe that when one teaches beginners the essentials of safe sightseeing in a hostile environment, it's good to see them go down the cautious path. The youngster accepted the demonstration without asking questions, but the rest of us didn't and the instructor was more than happy to elaborate on our questions.

My point is that when you start learning from scratch and safety issues are involved, it's important to learn the "how" before worrying about the "why". Once that's done, you can be as inquisitive as you want (and I am one to drive an instructor to despair with questions).

Totally unnecessary, either the instructor did not know what he was talking about, or he had 30 year old gear, or he just liked the "drama."

What? My profession is educational theory, but I do not understand what you are saying here.

Seems quite clear to me.

 

[Diver0001]

What? My profession is educational theory, but I do not understand what you are saying here.

I think what he's saying is that because people learn in different ways you have to be willing to teach in different ways. I can certainly follow his criticism of the "stand and deliver" model we're taught to use if he's looking at it from the perspective of someone with a background in education. It must seem very simple to someone with experience teaching. For the rest of us nobodies, like me, I was happy to have some kind of handle to hold on to coming out of the gate.

The point I think he's missing is that with a little experience we all start to let that go. If I'm reading him right, he seems to be confusing the "survival guide" which is what we get going into the IE with the way we're expected to teach for ever after....

R..