Rules of the Road

[nolatom]

Mundane - To charge batteries which we do often on passage etc.

Prudent - I always have the engine running but in neutral during any situation where I may need it at short notice to avoid a dangerous situation. I have no problem sailing back into harbour, along channels etc, after all it is a sailing yacht but prudence leads me to have the motor ready if there is a lot traffic about. Besides the batteries can always use more charge.



Sure - but if you are running the engine for any reason - even in neutral - you are a motor vessel, not a sailing vessel..

Not to belatedly pick nits, but Rule 3 (a) says a sailing vessel remains so, "provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used".

If I'm still sailing, but engine started and "ready" but hasn't been put in gear, it's not being "used", any more than a steam propulsion boiler with steam up is being "used" til the turbine/prop are rotated, so I think I'm still a sailboat. I wouldn't have to show a steaming light or conical day shape until i put her in gear and operate the shaft/prop, right?

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Any action you take to avoid a collision must be taken early enough to be effective and must be large enough to be readily apparent to the other vessel.

Changing course is generally better than changing speed due to the fact that this would be more immediately obvious to the other vessel. A course change great enough to be obvious would have the additional benefit at night of displaying different navigation lights. Rule #8 specifically advises against making a series of small course or speed changes that may not be easily detected by other vessels.

At all times your vessel's course may not be a straight line. Limitations imposed by a narrow and winding channels, shallow water, or ice conditions may force you to hold a course dictated by the limits of the channel. These limitations may restrict you to making only small course changes to avoid other dangers, such as running aground.

All actions taken to avoid collision should result in passing at a safe distance. Therefore, you must carefully check the effectiveness of your actions until the other vessel finally passes you and is clear.
__________________
Captain Bob Figular
President, Mariners School

Thanks for posting this thread Captain Bob!

If every captain and helmsman simply remembered and followed the simple, time-tested advice above, 99% of all collisions and near misses would be avoided.

As a practical matter, never assume that the helmsman in the other vessel has seen you, at least until you see them maneuvering appropriately to maintain a safe CPA.

Best wishes.

 

[mmerriman]

Not to belatedly pick nits, but Rule 3 (a) says a sailing vessel remains so, "provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used".

If I'm still sailing, but engine started and "ready" but hasn't been put in gear, it's not being "used", any more than a steam propulsion boiler with steam up is being "used" til the turbine/prop are rotated, so I think I'm still a sailboat. I wouldn't have to show a steaming light or conical day shape until i put her in gear and operate the shaft/prop, right?


You're right - it's picking nits. When I can see your exhaust - I can only assume that you're under power. When the USCG or the NYFD uses heat vision to see that your engine is running - you're under power. Note they will also notice that your radar isn't on and ding you for that if you have an incident. Its your word against everyone else.

 

[MarinersSchool]

This is one of those rules where everyone wants to argue about the intent and meaning of the rule...

I can assure you that if your engine is on then it is in use. No where in the rules does it say that the engine needs to be engaged to be considered as being in use...

 

[BB1]

Not to belatedly pick nits, but Rule 3 (a) says a sailing vessel remains so, "provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used".

If I'm still sailing, but engine started and "ready" but hasn't been put in gear, it's not being "used", any more than a steam propulsion boiler with steam up is being "used" til the turbine/prop are rotated, so I think I'm still a sailboat. I wouldn't have to show a steaming light or conical day shape until i put her in gear and operate the shaft/prop, right?

Correct you do not have to uses lights or shapes until you change from a sailing vessel to a power driven vessel!


For the others"

"Assume" we define it down here as:

To make an ASS out of U and ME.

Never assume anything! If I were to assume anything, I would err on the side of caution and "assume" that as they are not using steaming lights or showing a conical day shape then they must be a sailing vessel.

Heat vision?!?!? Get over yourself! No where in the Coll regs is heat vision mentioned - most of the world doesn't even have that kind of equipment on board!!

More assumptions - "My radar isn't on"?!? I don't even have radar!!!!

Instead of clutching at straws to try and justify an untenable position just man up and admit your are wrong in this case.

 

[MarinersSchool]

Again... The point and meaning of this rule is still being missed...

RULE 3
General Definitions

(c) The term “sailing vessel” means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

If your engine is running according to the Rules of the Road you are a power driven vessel... Period. And as such you would be required to display the lights of a power driven vessel whether your sails are up or not...

As far as the required dayshapes go... The International Rules of the Road state that A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.

On Inland waters the rule is the same except that that a vessel of less than 12 meters in length is not required to exhibit the dayshape.

This is the only part of the rules that define an engine being used to propel a sail boat.

 

[BB1]

My engine may be running but my Propelling machinery (gearbox, shaft, propellor) is not being used!

I am not required to show lights or a day shape if I am sailing and my propelling machinery is not being used - Period!

You really have a problem with people not agreeing with your interpretation of the rules dont you.

"This is the only part of the rules that define an engine being used to propel a sail boat."

Rule 3c does not mention an engine AT ALL!!! It states that if you are using propelling machinery!

Stop trying to twist this to suit your interpretation!

Read it again and understand that the people who wrote it were very wise in understanding that propelling machinery does not equal engine!

So how do you define this:

Hybrid catamaran with diesel generator and electric motors used to drive the propelling machinery (shaft and prop) IF ENGAGED - Plenty of these around!

Generator is running all day to quick Mrs Yankee nice and cool in her waterbourne RV. Aircon is on full, TV blaring, microwave on etc. Mr Yankee is SAILING along happily.

His generator/engine may be on BUT he is not using his propelling machinery therefore does not require lights/day shape and IS a sailing vessel.

Any power vessel is required to give way to him whether he has obvious exhaust discharge or not!

 

[BB1]

This is one of those rules where everyone wants to argue about the intent and meaning of the rule...

I can assure you that if your engine is on then it is in use. No where in the rules does it say that the engine needs to be engaged to be considered as being in use...

I assure you No where in the rule does it mention an engine:

(c) The term “sailing vessel” means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.

 

[MarinersSchool]

I run a school that is Coast Guard approved which has trained more than 25,000 students wishing to earn their Captain's License. This training also includes teaching the Coast Guard and many State Police organizations and first responders with responsibilities on the waterways of the United States. I am recognized as an expert witness in the eyes of the court system and have been involved as an expert witness in many actual court cases. So my explanation of the rule is more than just an interpretation... It is based on a solid understanding of maritime law and how it pertains to the Rules of the Road...

So, no I do not personally have a problem with people who disagree with me. What I do have a problem with though... Is people who are not knowledgeable or try pose as an expert in an area where they are not.

So, at the end of the day you do what you think is right... However, if you are unfortunate and find yourself in a court of law trying to explain that although your engines were running "propelling machinery" they were not being used... When you are paying the fine remember that you were warned...

Good luck... I suspect that you are going to need it...

 

[mmerriman]

***Heat vision?!?!? Get over yourself! No where in the Coll regs is heat vision mentioned - most of the world doesn't even have that kind of equipment on board!!

Welcome to the new world.

***More assumptions - "My radar isn't on"?!? I don't even have radar!!!!

If you don't have radar - no problem - my point was that a lot of people have outfitted their boats with radar and typically only run it in bad weather - a violation of the rules. And it IS being checked by heat vision in many major ports in the US. the FDs, other LEAs, and USCG typically do safety inspection boardings.


***Instead of clutching at straws to try and justify an untenable position just man up and admit your are wrong in this case.

I would if I were wrong - but I'm not. Look at the published cases. Maybe enforcement and interpretation of the COLREGs are different where you - but here they were written by lawyers for lawyers to find and assess fault. If you're in violation of 1 rule - you can be sure that you've alos violated 5 others.