Safe? Diving in Ontario

[Butch103]

This appeared to be very similar to the previous alert, so I delayed in responding to the phone numbers. Glad I did.

Now I do wonder if my Leafs had access to the chamber if it would help their hurts and get them playing hockey.....geeessshhhhh

 

[vlada]

I would be curious to know how many cases like that they have actually had to treat in the last few years.

Brian, it does not matter how many - what matters is that I or anyone who does deco diving could be the next one. Screw ups, unexpected PFOs and bad luck do happen and when they do, I'd really hope to have a good chamber nearby to increase the survival chances

Guys, i am glad it sounds like a temporary thing, but it is a good thing to know about.

 

[pufferfish]

Brian, it does not matter how many - what matters is that I or anyone who does deco diving could be the next one. Screw ups, unexpected PFOs and bad luck do happen and when they do, I'd really hope to have a good chamber nearby to increase the survival chances

Guys, i am glad it sounds like a temporary thing, but it is a good thing to know about.

Vlada you are absolutely right. A 'temporary' closure to patients who arrive on stretchers are the very ones who will need the hyperbaric treatment the most. This is like saying in a general sense we are temporarily closing the emergency department to only ambulatory (walking) patients and those critical unconscious patients on stretchers will have to go to Hamilton or Buffalo. In other words those patients with the worst problems like bad MVAs, gun shots, heart and asthma attacks, those most in need of urgent treatment will be sent down the road. And if the weather is bad that will be by land ambulance down the QEW most likely during rush hour. I'd say you will have at least an extra two hour delay by land until you are sitting in a chamber in Hamilton from downtown Toronto.

So those divers who have severe Type 2 DCS or AGE, or a firemen who is unconscious from CO poisoning may need to be flown to Hamilton or Buffalo for treatment while the guy with a niggle in his shoulder can walk in and get treated at TGH. That is basically what the TGH PR person is telling you and who seemed to persuade a few of you not to worry.

As for numbers it really is irrelevant if it is your turn for that 'unexpected hit' because of a PFO, or the firemen with bad smoke inhalation and CO poisoning. Delays in treatment for these folks translate into permanent lifelong neurological disabilities.

We live in a city with 3 million people and a large academic medical community. To believe that someone at TGH (surely not the hyperbaric dept.) plans to close the only bed available for critical stretcher patients is a sham and even if the first poster's intention was only to head a bad decision off at the pass, I don't see any reason to reduce the heat on the hospital administration or the MOH until they explain the nature and duration of this 'temporary' closure for critical patients. Is that going to be for two weeks or until a new building is built and a new chamber purchased?

Keep the phone calls going.

 

[d33ps1x]

Vlada you are absolutely right. A 'temporary' closure to patients who arrive on stretchers are the very ones who will need the hyperbaric treatment the most.

Keep the phone calls going.

Fine I'll say something.

This refers to people that cannot be removed from their stretchers for some reason or another. It's my understanding that patients would not be able to go in the current chamber although at some point a larger one is coming that will allow for this safely. It would stand to reason that a diver with DCS or AGE could be taken off their stretcher and placed in the chamber which I imagine is exactly what they do right now and have been doing for years.

I am not the subject expert and although I have been told the entire story I would still much rather wait for Alex from T.G. to comment. I'm not going to go on any further at this time except suffice to say you are going on misleading information from a sketchy single post, unidentified source with a non working website. That should tell all right there.

Can the phone calls and put a pin in the pufferfish. Time to deflate. Please do stop calling the whole world and burning effigies of the health minister in the town square.

 

[Axeman]

I have an inside contact @ TGH..... and it is not the janitor...

what I know from him is that their origional plan was to close the old chamber and use a smaller chamber in the interim... This has been done.

The plan was to renovate and buy this large multiplace chamber to replace the old one.

The "news" that brought this back to light for many is the change in plans to not purchacingthe large chamber but a much smaller chamber that can only treat 1 person at a time. (the proposed chamber could have treated 4)

so if you have flesh eating disease and you are in the chamber and a firefighter comes in for treatment. not only will the firefighter have to wait for you to come back to 1 ata but about 4 hours to disinfect the chamber. same goes for any divers that come in.... if there is someone in front of you, you wait. cause you don't want a lump of flesh eating disease to go with your AGE or DCS now do you?

I have been promised more facts to be supported by documentation within a few days. I will keep you updated on what they say.

 

[Dive Source]

I don't see any reason to reduce the heat on the hospital administration or the MOH until they explain the nature and duration of this 'temporary' closure for critical patients. Is that going to be for two weeks or until a new building is built and a new chamber purchased?

Keep the phone calls going.

IMO there is NO reason to crank this up yet.

It's called letting them post their side of it before more people with zero tact and who are rude call to yell at people at TGH and embarass everyone in the diving community.

And yes this has already happened.

TGH will be posting their side of it in a day or so, could everyone please calm down a bit and not make the diving community look like a bunch of screaming children to be ignored.

IF and I say IF the diving community is clearly not happy with the position after FULLY understanding it and hearing both sides of the isssue, then this discusssin should be about how best to proceed not about who to call and threaten.

The current atmosphere with some here is one of a mob mentality- What's next lighting the torches and storming down to the castle gates?

The people I have spoke to honestly seem to care and to have people here start to demand action while dialogue is still happening is frankly irresponsible and immature.

One person who joined the board and made ONE post has generated a knee jerk reaction in many based on only ONE side of the story.

Let the people who are doing there best to provide treatment with the resources at hand have their say too.

 

[d33ps1x]

The current atmosphere with some here is one of a mob mentality- What's next lighting the torches and storming down to the castle gates?

I'd like to present my new dramatic re-enactment of the Ontario Fresh Water Freaks dealing with new news, people and situations.

I call the following "Hey Guys! This is my new friend Polly."

hmm hmm...

Act 1 Scene 1. ACTION!

Rick the friendly fella: "Heya guys. This is my new friend Polly."
All Townspeople: "BURN THE WITCH!"
Old chick with gimpy leg:"I SAW HER TURN HER CAT INTO A DRAGON!"
All Towspeople: "BURN THE WITCH!"
Town Doctor: "SHE PUT GOBLINS IN OUR BELLIES! SET HER ON FIRE!!!"
All Townspeople: "YAH! BURN HER!!!"
Rick the friendly fella: "Heya guys. She's actually not a witch. This is my friend Polly."
All Townspeople in a gaggle of voices: "Oh...err...sorry...yah sorry...oops my bad...Err offer you a drink of something...Nice outfit...hmm..eee...err...sorry umm...Crazy Willy said you were a witch...Ahh hell...BURN HER ANYWAYS!!!"

End Act 1 Scene 1 :hanged:

And so ends another episode of...As the bubbles rise.

 

[Tom R]

In the next scene can we get some shrouberies

 

[boney]

Ni!!!
To truely tell if your so called friend Polly was a witch they should have weighed her up with something else that floats... like small pebbles or a duck! Then they could have burned her...

Do you have any production plans for "Hey Guys! This is my new friend Polly"??? Could be the next summer blockbuster!

 

[Axeman]

just a few thought to share

The Stakeholders:

We also need to be aware that the chambers are not just of benefit to us as sport divers.

The following people also use the chamber and we should all work together to make sure the hospital can meet all of our needs.

Fire Dept -smoke inhalation
Police Dive Team
Burn Victims
Commercial Divers
Bypass patients
Premature Babies
Cancer Patients
Flesh Eating Disease sufferers
and the list goes on.

For detailed list of chamber applications see http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/983208928.html

As you can see the list is long and it is not just divers that can benefit from a good chamber that can handle more than one patient at a time. There is also the need for research to determine just how much chambers can help us.

Meeting the Demand:

It has been reported in a letter I received that there was no staff available over the last holiday weekend. Thank god no one had an accident that weekend. there were several days where the chamber was closed.

As a person who relies on the presence and availability of a chamber close to my dive area I was shocked that we were not informed or no public notice made that it was going to be closed..... Perhaps some of the stakeholders like commercial divers etc would have postponed dives if they knew no chamber was available.

Since DAN also was not informed, think of the time wasted bringing a patient all the way to TGH only to find out there are no staff to run the chamber on duty because it is the Easter weekend.

People need to remember that accidents and emergencies don't happen 9-5 m-f....

With a population of 15 million people and servicing such a large area, there should be a manned chamber 24 hours a day. Not just when convenient.



there is tonnes more to be said but....