Safety stop/Deco stop .Whats the difference?

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I had a choice to make, and was prepared to deal with the consequences if they had occured....thus the stop wasnt exactly "mandatory".

You had a series of choices to make, and while getting out may well have been the best course of action after a series of poor choices, it's a stretch to conclude from that one anecdote that deco stops "aren't exactly 'mandatory'."

We all dive knowing that hit/no hit isn't a binary thing just because you blew a stop, that there's a good bit of theoretically padding in most deco schedules, that there are worse risks than skipping some deco, and that the only truly "mandatory" overhead is rock or steel...but none of that changes the fact that deco stops are properly treated as mandatory.
 
I dont disagree with you. I was merely pointing out that scubadada's choice to try to correct me with a very textbook response is not the only way something can be done......I had a choice to make, and was prepared to deal with the consequences if they had occured....thus the stop wasnt exactly "mandatory".

Training isn't mandatory for diving. Nothing is mandatory. However, maintaining a safe statistical margin over staying not bent requires a deco stop. All proper procedures show deco stops as mandatory. Getting lucky once does not make it a good decision. It especially doesn't make all deco stops optional.

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All of you made the wrong call, did a shoddy job of dive planning, and one of you happened to get lucky.
We all dive knowing that hit/no hit isn't a binary thing just because you blew a stop,

I have to ask if you were there when they made the dive? Then I have to ask if GI III is your hero?

Conditions often change during a dive as do personal tolerances. A diver has to know their own limitations as well as their buddy's but those can change in an instant. I've called a mandatory deco due to belligerent sharks and have cut short precautionary stops for a wide variety of reasons including a cold buddy and a plethora of jellies. Crap happens and sometimes you have to make choices that were not apparent at the beginning of the dive. Unless you were there you have no real basis for evaluating the scope of their planning. The best plans are fluid and change according to how the dive progresses. It's easy to talk smack about others but that don't impress me much. This type of discourse rarely adds to anyone's understanding but it does tend to inflate one's ego as well as to derail the discussion. So please, let's ditch the egos and get back to the topic at hand. Thanks in advance.
 
Pete, you've GOT to agree that saying a deco stop is "not mandatory" or "just a suggestion" is crazy due to a single experience. Not only that, pesky sharks or tons of jellies aren't something you can control or plan for. Temperature IS something you can plan for.

Most importantly, this is all beyond "Basic scuba" and the general point that Deco is mandatory while Safety stops are recommended still holds true.
 
I dont disagree with you. I was merely pointing out that scubadada's choice to try to correct me with a very textbook response is not the only way something can be done......I had a choice to make, and was prepared to deal with the consequences if they had occured....thus the stop wasnt exactly "mandatory".

The decompression stop was "mandatory" to comply with the decompression algorithm you used to plan the dive and limit your risk of DCS. You chose to modify or skip the deco stop based on the conditions and had a good outcome. Maybe you made the correct decision in this specfic case. I never said there was only one way to do things but sometimes there is a generally accepted way. Maybe that's how it gets into the textbook
 
Pete, you've GOT to agree that saying a deco stop is "not mandatory" or "just a suggestion" is crazy due to a single experience. Not only that, pesky sharks or tons of jellies aren't something you can control or plan for. Temperature IS something you can plan for.

Most importantly, this is all beyond "Basic scuba" and the general point that Deco is mandatory while Safety stops are recommended still holds true.


When diving wet, you can only stay so warm. I can tell you that i would never dive this temp again unless dry, but hey, lessons learned. As far as you and Dr. Lecter choosing to berate me, I knew i would catch flak for suggesting that deco stops arent "mandatory", and yes its outside the "basic scuba" discussion level.......but then again so are deco stops in general, which were part of the original question.

My original answer remains the same......A safety stop is a deco stop......because you are effectively doing decompression. And all dives ARE deco dives......whether you like it or not...its a fact.
 
Pete, you've GOT to agree that saying a deco stop is "not mandatory" or "just a suggestion" is crazy due to a single experience.
That's really not what he said. There are times to blow your deco. It's not a binary thing. Making it either/or can put people in jeopardy. I remember a DM telling everyone they HAD to be on the boat with 500 psi or else. My insta buddy took that to heart and blew off his precautionary stop and tried to imitate an ICBM. He could not stay awake on the drive home and almost caused a wreck for us. I finished the drive and tried to convince him to call DAN. Heck, we were well within our NDL so he should have been able to miss that stop... just not at that speed.

Not only that, pesky sharks or tons of jellies aren't something you can control or plan for. Temperature IS something you can plan for.
Is it? I did a dive where the top was 80+F and 48F on the bottom. I had an ice cream headache the entire dive.

Most importantly, this is all beyond "Basic scuba" and the general point that Deco is mandatory while Safety stops are recommended still holds true.
Which is why I asked that we get back to the topic: The difference between safety and deco stops.
 
I have to ask if you were there when they made the dive? Then I have to ask if GI III is your hero?

Conditions often change during a dive as do personal tolerances. A diver has to know their own limitations as well as their buddy's but those can change in an instant. I've called a mandatory deco due to belligerent sharks and have cut short precautionary stops for a wide variety of reasons including a cold buddy and a plethora of jellies. Crap happens and sometimes you have to make choices that were not apparent at the beginning of the dive. Unless you were there you have no real basis for evaluating the scope of their planning. The best plans are fluid and change according to how the dive progresses. It's easy to talk smack about others but that don't impress me much. This type of discourse rarely adds to anyone's understanding but it does tend to inflate one's ego as well as to derail the discussion. So please, let's ditch the egos and get back to the topic at hand. Thanks in advance.

This isn't about ego: we've all done things sub-optimally on more than one dive (I certainly have), and there's no shame in being called on it and calling someone on it doesn't make you a better diver. The shame is if you can't objectively evaluate your own decision making ex post; you're a better diver if you go forth and do what you can to avoid screwing up (including listening to people's critiques of your diving). DD and I had a good exchange not too long ago about whether my diving air deeper than 200' was a contributing factor to my almost choosing to skip some 10' stop deco because of an O2 tox concern. Personally, I don't think my having a high pO2 contributed to my later decisionmaking process and I said as much, but I respect his arguments on the topic. Back to this thread, I didn't call this guy a stroke, I didn't call him a bad diver, and I didn't say he made the wrong call at the end of the dive. It's pretty funny you're suggesting a deep air solo diver likes GI3, though. What I said was two things:

First, he and his team made a series of poor choices that put him in that position in the first place. If he wants to tell me that the whole team had carefully planned their exposure pro for the onsite conditions their knowledge/experience/research dictated could happen, and that everyone just happened to suffer drysuit failures and/or massive temp drops that nobody could have reasonably predicted for that dive on that day at that site, cool. Somehow I doubt that's the case. Even assuming what I said is more or less correct, poor dive planning choices are not necessarily a huge deal -- :censored: happens, people make poor decisions/fail to think ahead at all. Whatever.

Second, nothing about any of that suggests that "gee, no stops are really mandatory" is a reasonable conclusion to draw, much less broadcast in Basic Scuba. Yes, there's nothing over your head preventing you from deciding that whatever risk you're facing is worse than the risk of omitted deco plus whatever mitigation you can do (warm up, suck O2, etc). How to do a decent job of balancing the risks inherent in the decision of whether to respect the ceiling or take your chances is something for a tech course and/or diving experience. But a blanket statement from a :censored:ing instructor in Basic Scuba that "deco isn't exactly mandatory" based on that fact that he once blew off a stop and was OK? Nope, not letting that one pass without a BS tag.

Which, in point of fact, is the OP's topic. The difference IMO is that deco stops are mandatory. What mandatory means is something outside the scope of rec training/experience...unless it's a true emergency (whatever the threat is) on top of another emergency (deco stops incurred on a rec dive).
 
Personally, I don't like how deco is taught to most OW students. they're given a lot of rules to follow and very seldom do they understand the reasoning behind the rules. I make it a point to discuss reasons when stops should be blown off. I also cover tissue groups and why I do a full five minute precautionary stop. I don't have a problem with deco theory being discussed in the basic forum.
 
A safety stop is a deco stop......because you are effectively doing decompression.
This, I completely agree with!

And all dives ARE deco dives......whether you like it or not...its a fact.
This is absolutely untrue, unless you're simply using grammar to be "technically" correct. Yes, technically, you "decompress" during all dives as you attained a higher nitrogen loading than what is considered saturation at your altitude. However, a "deco dive" in the common vernacular refers to dives where the NDL was breached and you have an obligatory deco stop according to that algorithm.
 
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