Scopolamine and Narcosis

[limeyx]

Interesting. I have started taking oral scopalomine recently, as its the only thing that fixes my seasicknesses and does not zonk me out like a zombie later in the day.

I have so far probably 10-15 dives with the scopalomine. at a variety of depths, but mostly in the 150-160 range, and a few in the 200-240 range in approximately 50F water (usually warmer on deco).

So far I have not noticed any adverse effects, but this is just a sample of one.

 

[lowviz]

My husband went back in the water with me. At the time I didn't know how badly I screwed up and we were 30 min. from the dock and the coast guard wasn't there yet. This was just a decision that was made quickly, maybe not the best decision. I'm certain this was caused by the scopalamine. I dive every weekend in Lake Michigan at 100+ feet and the narcosis was so different from what I usually experience.

Good job.

There is a lot of self-sufficiency involved with wreck diving. It went bad, you responded with rational actions. The best decisions? Who knows. Alive and unhurt, -my definition of the very best decisions possible. [can't imagine what your husband went through] I too dive with scopolomine (patch), no matter what the seas are. This helps make the med a constant rather than a subconscious flag that I'm in bad conditions. I also dive with a "back in before 3.5 minutes" US Navy 10 minute omitted stop procedure on my arm slate. Starts at 40'. I get grief for this now and then, but it is still there. Having it handy makes it my choice.

...and the narcosis was so different from what I usually experience.

I agree with your observation. Narcosis is a variable, not a constant.

Stay safe.

 

[Diver Lori]

I'm allergic to the adhesive in Transderm scop and decided to try oral on a trip to Honduras a few years ago. I took the scop at breakfast and couldn't even make it to the dock at Fantasy Island! I got hit with a wave of nausea and vertigo on the short walk there that totally incapacitated me. It was like I was drunk and the room was spinning. My BF had to half carry me back to the room and was laughing the whole time that I am now getting seasick just smelling the ocean nearby.

It's odd because Transderm Scop didn't affect adversely other than creating a itchy welt at the application site. I was bummed because it is the only thing that has helped me, but I'm allergic to the dermal, and apparently can't handle the oral either. I am a cheap drunk, so maybe that's my problem!

 

[DiveMaven]

Lori, that's a great reason why whenever we try new meds for diving that we try them in the safety of our homes, not when we're ready to go diving. You were lucky to experience the side effects prior to getting in the water, but its really too bad you cannot use the patch instead.

I've used Transderm Scop for many years while diving and have never felt any effects, other than a dry mouth for the first 3 days and my vision is a bit "off", though not enough to bother me....just enough to notice. I've never tried Scopace (the pill) but since Meclizine works well for me, I decided not to go with the prescription. After reading all of this, I think I'll stick with the patch and Meclizine, depending on the situations.

 

[scubadobadoo]

Great job OP and fellows SB'ers with this convo.

I'll add that I have had the same vertigo and sickness side effects mentioned by diver lori above with both oral and the patch. Luckily not while I was diving.

But as others have kindly stated, I'm not sure any of us can point to the drug as being the culprit 100% in your case. It may have been a difference that you could point to with this dive but another difference was that you lost your buddy and that is when most of your problems took off. The drug may have (or not) impaired your decision making in some way but we'll never know if it started the chain reaction of events leading to you being out of air with a deco obligation or if it was losing your buddy that started it all. If I had to guess, I would say it was losing your buddy/husband that REALLY shoved the ball down the hill but I wasn't there.

Just some observations solely based on your original post that may or may not help decide how at fault the drug may be.... You mentioned that you frequently feel narced (difference in breathing rate, a little nervous) on this wreck due to the temps/depth. You didn't mention feeling seriously disoriented or really different from previous dives on this wreck or others UNTIL you lost your Husband. Add to it that you lost not only your buddy, BUT your HUSBAND and that little bit of panic you mentioned feeling already at this depth and on this dive can QUICKLY turn to full blown disorientation leading to some interesting decisions and or situations like finding yourself OOA with a deco obligation. Again, just some observations leaving out the possible effects that the drug may have compounded.

SO...How much different did you feel before the dive after having taken the drug? Did you feel different in any way (impaired) BEFORE you lost your Husband DURING the dive? If so, then maybe pointing to the drug makes more sense.

I'm glad you made it to dive another day! Crap happened and you beat the panic monster with a stick!

 

[Gene_Hobbs]

Sorry, no time for a longer reply but there is some data looking at Scopolamine and hyperbaric exposure. You might find these interesting.

I'll be tied up for a while so please PM if anyone needs something from us.

 

[HJeffreyM]

Interesting thread. I've been using the scop patch on dive trips for about a year. I've taken it to about 110fsw with no apparant ill effects. I am also interested in what DC the OP was using. I dive an AI Elite T3, but do not use the conservative mode. I've never had it in deco mode, but I know what it would look like and what to do from reading the manual.

I wonder if anyone else picked up on the fact the OP was diving nitrox at the time of the incident? I am curious as to what mix they were using. If she was diving EAN36 or higher, she may have been pushing the MOD on the mixture at 110fsw making OxTox a possibility in addition to possibly being narced AND taking a new med.

Seems like there could be a combination of effects going on here.

 

[ddogu]

This really is not really a case of in-water recompression. She never showed any signs of DCS. It is more of what would be called "Omitted Decompression."

Although staying on the surface with O2 is generally recommended, a number of agencies say that if you miss some deco and can get back in the water quickly, you can return to the water and complete the omitted stops. For example, Here is an excerpt from TDI's Decompression Procedures manual (p. 34). It is quoting U.S. Navy procedures.



In this case, I would say that using O2 would have been better, but returning to the water was OK. I believe, though, that the amount of time spent in this case was excessive, especially at 30 feet. I would have spent less time total, and I would have spent all of it at the shallower depth.

good info. but how do you calculate the depth and duration of the deco? once you're outta water the diving computers all go "surface intervall mode" AFAIK. and going back to the water just won't make them enter a "delayed deco mode" or something.

 

[boulderjohn]

good info. but how do you calculate the depth and duration of the deco? once you're outta water the diving computers all go "surface intervall mode" AFAIK. and going back to the water just won't make them enter a "delayed deco mode" or something.

First of all, if you had to cut sort a stop because of air, you return to that stop and complete it or add to it as described.

Next, I cannot speak for all computers, but my 10 year old Suunto will put me back on track to complete that deco if I get back into the water within the allowed time.

 

[HJeffreyM]

ddogu,

FYI...Most DCs give you 10 minutes to get back in the water before entering surface mode. If you get back in the water before 10min, the DC will treat it as a continuation of the same dive with all deco obligations intact.

If you are out of the water for more than 10 minutes, you will most likely not benefit from IWR. It would be better at that point to get on 100% O2, rest, and wait to see if any DCS smptoms appear. If they do, you're going for a ride in the nearest chamber.

Happy diving!