ScubaBoard TOS on Harassment and Cyberbullying

[funrecdiver]

I believe the term is participant, not customer.
To be a customer some sort of financial transaction has to ensue and as far as I can tell SB costs nothing. They provide the platform and we participate. Just because they make some moolah off of the spectacle doesn't make us customers or even business partners. Damn....

Hi Dale,

Yes, your view is certainly one view, and perhaps a more accurate one that my view.

However, because a forum is "user generated content" an argument can be made there there are many "customers"... including those who generate content (since their labor is not paid).

I do see your point.

Some would argue that the "customers" are only the ad networks and advertisers.

Back on topic... the SB TOS is clear on Harassment and Cyberbullying. I don't think I will post there much longer because I find the experience of Harassment and Cyberbullying here outside to the TOS of SB. If there was no problem here on SB, I would not be posting about it.

Actually, if SB would simply enforce there TOS, there would be no problems. The TOS is well written. What does not work is the lack of moderators for a such a large forum, hence relying on "user reporting". Forcing the users to be the "forum police" is not a ideal model. There are many people who can moderate and make this forum a more fun and friendly place.

My experience on SB is that it is not a "fun and friendly" place and just posting a trip report, even not "naming names" can result in relentless, Harassment and Cyberbullying (and other TOS violations).

I also find it odd that, since I run a forum, I am "talked down to" as if 15 years of forum management experience has no value to the moderators here. I did not demand SB follow our moderation model, I simply asked that the moderate and follow their own SB TOS.

 

[Cave Diver]

I do not agree that pointing out the TOS is "inflammatory" (especially when the mods do not moderate)..... Also, I always follow the TOS on forums.

I disagree with the part I bolded in red above, based on the bolded red below:

It seems one user continues to register as various user IDs and continue their harassment even after banned from a thread. These "one post abusers" who register an id to simply launch their attacks should be banned from the board immediately, not just from one thread. Adhering to the SB TOS is not a request, it is a basic term of service for usage.

From the SB ToS:

Terms of Service Definition: Cyberbullying

ScubaBoard has long been known as one of the most friendly forums on the internet*. Here you can find Scuba Divers from novice to expert sharing experiences and helpful hints. We like it like that, and you have our word that we want to keep it that way. Unfortunately, we have recently encountered a growing phenomenon amongst our membership that has marred our happy place. We call it cyber bullying and it comes in many forms. Here are a few ways that have come to light recently:

• Thread Hijacking: Derailing a thread with a lot of off topic banter. We have the Pub for that kind of activity.
• Stalking: Following a member from thread to thread to humiliate, embarrass or otherwise cajole a member in order to make them feel unwelcome.
• Dog Piling: Joining others in such a manner as to make a member feel threatened and unwelcome.

You can be sure that we are working hard in order to resolve this matter. Some of the people involved are long time and valued members and we are perplexed by their behavior. It could be that they don't see how it affects others and are simply doing it to have fun. It could be that they truly resent these few who are targeted and want to see them leave. Really, it doesn't matter why they are doing it, it just needs to stop and stop immediately. So, how are we going to do this? We need your help! If you see any of these patterns don't try to intervene! First, be sure to stay out of the fray. Second, show some compassion and hit the Bad Post button. Then we can step in and resolve the matter hopefully in a peaceful manner. Finally, please show us some patience. We don't want to lose anyone over this. As I said earlier, most involved just don't realize what they are doing as they are normally friendly people! Hey, thanks for taking the time to read this. Let's commit ourselves to making and keeping this the friendliest forum on the internet. Friendly, and yet oh so relevant.

In addition, on another thread you extolled the virtues of your forum and how you have no tolerance for users getting out of line and ban them immediately, yet you take issue with being told the same here.

if anyone in our forums called someone a "dork" or "stupid" or other insults, we would ban them immediately for a serious TOS violation. We do not tolerate personal attacks on others in our forums by anyone. When it goes unchecked, it creates an unhealthy atmosphere for all. These are our forum rules, FYI:

RULES OF THE UNIX AND LINUX FORUMS

We do not tolerate any flame wars, insults, personal attacks.... One attack on a personal basis is grounds for an immediate ban.

OBTW, just for quick forum-to-forum on-line user comparisons (not very significant, just for discussion):


We have different user demographics, as we consider our forums a knowledge base (repository) for professional people searching for answers to a (work related) problem. SB is more of an interactive community. At the moment of this post, you had 5 times more registered users posting, but we had 3 times more guests on site searching for answers. On the other hand, we have 20 to 25 active moderators (currently only around 20). Not sure how many active mods SB had.... but I would guess you would need around 5 to 10 times the number that we have to moderate as well as we do (100 to 200 moderators globally). Perhaps that is why you try to rely (mostly) on user reporting? I think you should consider more mods.

SB has 10 times more posts than we do. Part of the reason for this is that we do not permit flame wars, insults, etc. Since folks tend to gravitate toward conflict (the theme of most successful movies and books), our forum tends to have less members on line and less posts, but the posts are of high quality (low signal to noise ratio).

We can certainly learn from each other. There are many things about SB I think are great. The moderation, however, is not one of them, sorry.

Cheers.

If you wish to find the problem, I'd suggest you take a look in the mirror. In the meantime, I've told you the expectations. Either you choose to follow them or you don't. But if you choose to continue the disruptions I will remove you from the thread, the forum, or the board as applicable.

 

[funrecdiver]

Hi Cave Diver,

Please, allow me to understand your thinking.

You are now threatening to ban me from the Support forum and this board for discussing the SB TOS and moderation model in the Support Forum?

Is that right?

Because if you are threatening to ban me from the Support forum and SB for discussing Harassment and Cyberbullying, the TOS and the moderation model in the Support Forum, you don't need to ban, me, I will never post here again because you, a moderator, and *you* are now bullying me in the Support Forum over my support issues.

Is this what you mean?

 

[Cave Diver]

Hi Cave Diver,

Please, allow me to understand your thinking.

You are now threatening to ban me from the Support forum and this board for discussing the SB TOS and moderation model in the Support Forum?

Is that right?

Because if you are threatening to ban me from the Support forum and SB for discussing Harassment and Cyberbullying, the TOS and the moderation model in the Support Forum, you don't need to ban, me, I will never post here again because you, a moderator, are bullying me in the Support Forum....

No, that is not what I said at all. I said by the model that your forum uses, you would have already been banned for some of the things you've have posted here on SB, yet you complain that we are too harsh in our treatment of you.

I also said that if you continue disrupting other forums in the manner I've already pointed out to you numerous times that your privileges in those thread, forums, or possibly the entire board may be revoked.

I'm done debating the issue with you. If you are still having trouble comprehending I don't know how to make it any more clear.

 

[funrecdiver]

No, there nothing I have posted on ScubaBoard that would have caused me to be banned on our board.

However, you permit posts here on SB that are clearly TOS violations. For example, even in this Support thread the Thai_Diver sock puppet (or id created to attack earlier) called me "arrogant and condescending". Isn't that a TOS violation?

I thought SB did not permit these kind of negative personal attacks and comments?

Actually, I have no trouble "comprehending" anything. What I am "comprehending" is that you "never make a mistake" and if someone believes you do and posts in the Support Forum you call this "disruptive" and you threaten to ban them.

I have never done anything disruptive here except point at a TOS violation and hit the report button as you and NetDoc have demanded AND complained to you that your moderation model does not work, privately, via email, and in this support forum.

So, we will just agree to disagree; and the Thailand forum will continue to be a place ripe with Harassment and Cyberbullying when someone disagrees with a post? It is a sock-puppet, abusive forum. Why would I want to continue posting there? I have better things to do, Cave Diver!

I think it is certainly better I don't post on SB; because I have pointed out, repeatedly, TOS violations, and your reply is to threaten me and call me "disruptive" for pointing out TOS violations.

Who would want to post in such an abusive environment when you, a moderator, does not enforce TOS and threatens the users who are following the rules?

If that is your final position, then I will never post again, because I don't contribute trip reports and content to a forum where the TOS is not enforces and Harassment and Cyberbullying is rampant.

Honestly, I have not violated any TOS at SB, period.

PS: How to I stop PM abuse? I am starting to get harassing PMs now from the same sock puppets. I don't think your board permits us to block abusive members PMs, does it?

 

[funrecdiver]

PS: How to I stop PM abuse? I am starting to get harassing PMs now from the same sock puppets. I don't think your board permits us to block abusive members PMs, does it?

Nevermind... I will just block all PMs except admins and moderators since we cannot individual abusers like Thai_Diver, who seems to be threatening me via PM now, LOL.

 

[Thalassamania]

Please use the report button on these PMs and if, they are in fact, abusive they will be dealt with.

 

[annasea]

I believe if you put another member on 'ignore', not only will you no longer see their posts, any PMs they send you will be blocked as well.

Sorry you're having trouble in the Thailand forum... I read posts there on occasion and I must say it certainly appears to be the least pleasant sub-forum on SB. Regardless, if I were you and I was currently in Thailand, I'd spend more time diving than debating SB's TOS.

 

[DCBC]

...It is a full time job reporting abuse here, which continues as we type!

Sorry you're having a bad day funrecdiver. Sometimes personal perspectives get bent out of perspective. Remember Moderators are human too and can have a bad day every once and a while.

FYI, John (Cave Diver) is one of the best Moderators on this Board and you will be hard pressed to find anyone more level-headed. We've butted heads a few times, but he's always remained a gentleman and a credit to ScubaBoard. I suggest that you cut the Mods some slack. They want the same as you; fair and respectful conversation. Safe diving!

Wayne

 

[Thai_Diver]

So do you have multiple SB accounts?

Hi ScubaSteve,

Of course I do not have multiple accounts. I have better things to do with my time. Could it just possibly be that I am not the only SB member who dared to share a different opinion on his thread? :shocked2: