Secondary reg bungee'd around neck?

[GeorgeC]

A RB diver donates a regulator attached to his OC bailout supply in this scenario. The bailout supply is either onboard from his diluent bottle, or from offboard in the form of a stage bottle........

I agree to you above quote so why is this different for two divers diving OC? I read so many divers on this board say they get the regulators ripped out of their mouths

When a RB diver is buddied up with an OC diver, it is paramount that both divers are familiar with many protocols. For the OC diver, asside from having basic understanding of the hazzards to be aware of for his buddy, they must be familiar with how he will recieve/donate air in a OOA situation. This wouldn't be something not discussed on the surface.....

Once again I agree. Which is what two OC divers should be doing prior to diving to avoid that reg. rip out problem. Communicate!

Passing the bottle creates a very dangerous situation for the RB diver. That bottle is there to breathe off during a RB failure or abnomal situation. If the bottle was passed, then the bottle isn't there to perform it's function.....

I disagree with this being dangerous. If the bottle or regulator is passed by the RB diver the dive is aborted and both divers head for the safety stop. In addition, if the bailout is passed the RB diver he/she still has the dil OC regulator to bail out to. I personally would hang on to the bottle to try and control the situation unless of course the situation became dangerous then let go of the bottle.

......Most onboard DIL bottles are of large enough capacity to provide adequate bailout gas. This is why most RB divers carry offboard gas for bailout purposes.

Do you mean DIL bottles are NOT large enough to provide bailout gas? You always carry enough off board gas to bail out of your worst condition.

I recently came back from a dive trip to Pompano Beach for 5 days of diving and was paired up with a fellow dive master that I took the class with and was certified here in NJ.

Into the first dive I realized he was not a fine tuned diver with many dives under his belt. As soon as I realized this I stayed close on every dive and asked him if he was OK several times thorough the dive. I made sure he was checking his gas supply often and I did this for his safety as well as my safety. Prevention is the first step to make sure a bad situation does not develop. Knowing his weaknesses allowed me to stay one step ahead of him.

 

[mempilot]

I disagree with this being dangerous. If the bottle or regulator is passed by the RB diver the dive is aborted and both divers head for the safety stop. In addition, if the bailout is passed the RB diver he/she still has the dil OC regulator to bail out to. I personally would hang on to the bottle to try and control the situation unless of course the situation became dangerous then let go of the bottle.

The bailout bottle is an integral component of the RB system. Without it, such as in passing the bottle, the RB diver no longer has gas to breathe in the event of CO2, breakthru, sensor malfunction, or any one of several other factors that would cause a bailout. When two RB divers are paired up, each carries their own supply. When a RB diver dives with an OC buddy, that bailout supply serves two purposes: 1. bailout for the RB diver, and 2. reserve gas for the OC diver in an OOA situation. Rather than pass the bottle, the RB diver should consider having two 2nd stage regulators available on that supply, one for a failure of the RB, and one for the OC diver. Then he must also make sure the supply is big enough to support both events happening on the same dive. For recreational purposes, the gas needed would be equivelent to the volume needed to get both divers to the surface. For tech, it would need to get them both to their first gas switch.

Do you mean DIL bottles are NOT large enough to provide bailout gas? You always carry enough off board gas to bail out of your worst condition.

Only a few RB models have onboard tanks big enough to bailout to and get to the surface. Most onboard DIL bottles are very small, and if you use them for BO, they are only used for sanity breathes. You then would either go back on the loop, or switch to an offboard supply big enough to get you to the first gas switch or the surface if diving NDL. For example, my onboard bottles are 13cf steels. I burn through 500psi per hour on the RB, so if my OC buddy were to need to use that gas at say 80fsw, there would only be say 10cf left in the bottle. If I had a failure while he was sucking down that 10 cf on the way up, we'd be in some trouble. I don't use onboard gas for bailout. I bailout to an AL40 or AL80 with the same mix as my DIL. On this offboard tank, I use the long hose, so that the supply can be used by another diver during troubleshooting, or an OC diver during OOA. While I practice passing the bottle off, I would only do so after I'm above the MOD for the next deco gas. That way if my RB fails and I have bail out off the loop, I can go OC on the deco mix.

 

[rjpv]

Thanks for the many informed replies, I'm glad to see all the interest!

I'm starting to think the bungee set-up makes sense in that it keeps the secondary reg safe and in a much better defined location. This is good both for me and for my buddy. The distance thing doesn't bother me as much, since to be honest at this stage I'd probably be clutching an OOA buddy's BCD anyway. Not interested in anything more than regaining calm and safely ascending.

I noticed one picture of a commercial reg bungee, which was very helpful, but if anyone has a clear picture of a diver actually wearing the bungee-reg setup that would be helpful too.

I am a little unclear on the "hands free access" idea with the bungee'd reg. I can see how one's mouth would be much closer to the reg, but I imagine it still being just out of head-reach to make it easily accessible without hands. A picture of a diver wearing a bungee might help!

Thanks again!

 

[TSandM]

HERE are some pretty good photographs.

 

[Age]

Ì think most of the major point have been covered but I want to point out a couple of things concerning "the triangle" and "short hoses.

the triangle taught by many agencies is from the mouth to the lower corner of the rib cage, right? If you and your buddy are horizontal and at the same depth as you should be, most of that triangle is out of view. Given that everyone clips those octos in a slightly different way in a slightly different spot, just where the heck is it? This whole thing was designed with kneeling or otherwise vertical divers in mind. Just refernce the text from about any agency, watch it being taught or think back to your own class. By contrast, the mouth of a horizontal diver is in clear view and easy enough to find in zero vis.

LOL, what folks tend to refer to as the "standard" configuration lookes like a big knot or birds nest with all the loops.

Thanks everyone for a great debate. MikeFerrara for me, had, in the end, the above compelling argument; I'm only vertical at the surface these days and there's usually a lot of air up there. The best arguments for the "standard" configuration came from those that are very comfortable with a long hose anyway and had thousands of dives under their belts. I, on the other hand, don't dive anywhere as near as many times as a professional and so even on recreational dives I'm effectively training. Therefore, as I need to feel completely comfortable with my configuration and feel as though it's a part of me and also as I believe that long hose is safer I contacted my instructor and he'll have a 7 foot hose waiting for me at the next pool training session. I'll do two pool training sessions then I'll be off to Bahol to dive my a... off with my new configuration.

 

[bubba105]

OK, devil's advocate here.

Supppppooooosssseee, you're diving your 7 foot rig w/ bungie octo, cruising along when out of nowhere a panicked OOA diver comes over your shoulder and grabs your primary from your mouth. (For the DIR crowd, who always have a team member around, just a millisecond before this everyone turns and says "Cool, a whale shark" into their reg, you're on your own) Everything is fine except that the panicked diver grabbed the hose from your bungied second while frantically grabbing your primary, disconnecting your secondary from the bungie. Now our panicked diver starts heading for the surface, swimming like Mark Spitz, causing your now unbungied second, on the short hose, to hang itself on your tank, behind you, as you are dragged to the surface. You try to "reel the panicked diver in" but he's now 7 feet above you, holding your 7 foot hose with both hands and since he's 7 feet away from you his fins are exactly even with your face so he's kicking your mask off. You haven't had a breath in a while, what now?

I, on the other hand, am 40 inches away. I reach for my always secured octo, then my knife and thank God this is a shark dive.

Only kidding about the knife, maybe???

 

[Clanggedin]

OK, devil's advocate here.

Supppppooooosssseee, you're diving your 7 foot rig w/ bungie octo, cruising along when out of nowhere a panicked OOA diver comes over your shoulder and grabs your primary from your mouth. (For the DIR crowd, who always have a team member around, just a millisecond before this everyone turns and says "Cool, a whale shark" into their reg, you're on your own) Everything is fine except that the panicked diver grabbed the hose from your bungied second while frantically grabbing your primary, disconnecting your secondary from the bungie. Now our panicked diver starts heading for the surface, swimming like Mark Spitz, causing your now unbungied second, on the short hose, to hang itself on your tank, behind you, as you are dragged to the surface. You try to "reel the panicked diver in" but he's now 7 feet above you, holding your 7 foot hose with both hands and since he's 7 feet away from you his fins are exactly even with your face so he's kicking your mask off. You haven't had a breath in a while, what now?

I, on the other hand, am 40 inches away. I reach for my always secured octo, then my knife and thank God this is a shark dive.

Only kidding about the knife, maybe???

I'd cut the long hose in half with my knife and breath from it like a free-flowing reg. If the OOA diver is swimming like Spitz then he'll be 20' above me before he realizes I've cut the hose. At least one of us will be surfacing conscious and it's gonna be me.

 

[mempilot]

How deep are you? Perform a CESA. Everyone remember what that is?

 

[Jasonmh]

OK, devil's advocate here.

Supppppooooosssseee, you're diving your 7 foot rig w/ bungie octo, cruising along when out of nowhere a panicked OOA diver comes over your shoulder and grabs your primary from your mouth. (For the DIR crowd, who always have a team member around, just a millisecond before this everyone turns and says "Cool, a whale shark" into their reg, you're on your own) Everything is fine except that the panicked diver grabbed the hose from your bungied second while frantically grabbing your primary, disconnecting your secondary from the bungie. Now our panicked diver starts heading for the surface, swimming like Mark Spitz, causing your now unbungied second, on the short hose, to hang itself on your tank, behind you, as you are dragged to the surface. You try to "reel the panicked diver in" but he's now 7 feet above you, holding your 7 foot hose with both hands and since he's 7 feet away from you his fins are exactly even with your face so he's kicking your mask off. You haven't had a breath in a while, what now?

I, on the other hand, am 40 inches away. I reach for my always secured octo, then my knife and thank God this is a shark dive.

Only kidding about the knife, maybe???

So, also playing devils advocate, your 40 inch setup in the same situation means his flailing arms are knocking your mask off and his feet are kicking you in the crotch the entire time...
I'm not sure which situation is worse

 

[mempilot]

So, I'm diving. Minding my own business with my long hose happily wrapped and tucked; and my my second beautifully bungee'd. Then, out of no where, an out of air laggerhead fins me in the eggs and starts sucking off my second....

I forgot where I was going with that. Let's come up with some more scenarios.