Seeking Opinions on Troubling Incident

[barc802]

I am the instructor that had my Student pushed off the platform.

Some of the facts are not accurate, probably because I did not explain them clearly the other day. To Clarify. We were passing through on our way back to the accent line. There was a that we passed, there were a bunch of divers around the area. I lead my 2 students around the platform, one followed me and one cut across the non-occupied side of the platform. He lost visual contact of me for a second and paused on the platform in a kneeling position. I turned an saw him do this, at that point just a few seconds after he paused, an instructor who was with 1 student on the other side of the platform swam over, about 6 feet, and shoved my student off the platform. My student who was now really confused stopped and tried no to leave the "safety" of the platform. Witnessing the this entire action that was less than 10 seconds I grabbed my student by the shoulder strap and pulled him off the platform and away from rest of the divers. My second student witnessing the entire thing accented about 10 feet to get away from the situation. We then continued on to the accent line making our safety stop and accenting to the surface.

I do not have a 100% id on the offending instructor although I know who he works for. They were still in the water when I was time for use to leave and being a some what of a hot head I decided to leave and talk it over with my shop owner later in the day.

 

[Garrobo]

I'd have probably kicked his a** when he came up. But that's just me.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Note that there are multiple sides to every story -- yours, theirs, and the truth is somewhere inbetween.



I see this from both sides of the coin:


1: While an instructor is doing drills on a platform, don't just drop down on it. Go somewhere else -- there's an entire quarry out there, but right now there's an instructor with their student(s) here. They need to be focused on the task at and, and dropping right down on them is distracting and rude. Your instructor should not have let their student kneel on the platform for their safety stop (skill issues aside) while there was another class taking place on the same platform.

2: Shoving the offending diver away is also quite rude. Perhaps a simple "please move a bit further away" signal might work better. That instructor doesn't know your student at all, and doesn't know whey they are on the platform. For all he knows, that guy was there just to distract him and his student. Shoving your student was certainly over the top and unprofessional, but so was letting your student sit near this guy and his class.


...assault? Are you kidding me? That wasn't assault. Assault is someone coming after you with a knife or maybe beating your brains in. This was someone shoving...but I'd hardly call it assault. No wonder our nation is becoming more wussified every day. You people want to bring the police and lawyers in to this? Are you nuts? ...and people complain about us turning into such a litigious society...

How hard does it take to push someone over so they lose their balance while underwater? Most people have issues kneeling while balanced on a platform anyway, especially new students. For all we know this guy just attempted to push the student a bit further away to allow for more room for his class.

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I lead my 2 students around the platform, one followed me and one cut across the non-occupied side of the platform. He lost visual contact of me for a second and paused on the platform in a kneeling position. I turned an saw him do this...

....so now we have some new facts. You were in front of your students, leading them around the quarry, and one was apparently so far behind he was out of visual range.

Instead of you watching your students and having them in your sight AT ALL TIMES, you are playing follow the leader, with your students having the burden of keeping up with and following YOU?!? How can you possibly say you had any control over your students at all, if they are behind you and you can't see them??

YOU are supposed to watch THEM, not the other way around!!!

Playing follow the leader is not an acceptable way to teach diving. For all your know this guy could have been having a heart attack and drowning, and you never would have known it.




Sounds like everyone is a bit guilty in this story.


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In my GUE-F class a year and a half ago, we were hovering above the sunken boat in the local quarry doing maskless drills. Right in the middle of this, we had an entire open water class descend on us without regard to us and our class.

Then, they proceeded to plop down on the boat (right in the middle of us as if we weren't there) and start CESA drills. The vis wasn't great, but now with 15 new students flutter kicking for the surface, they BLITZED the visibility. Amazingly, our instructor not only held his video camera steady on us with one hand, he also tried to wave their instructor off (to no avail) with the other.


It wasn't the student's fault -- it was 100% on the shoulders of the instructor. He refused to go somewhere else. There were a plethora of open platforms they could have used, but instead he decided to descend on the one with bubbles coming up and then ignore us, as his students destroyed any semblance of visibility. Our instructor was PISSED.

....so, we surface kicked to another platform, descended...and within a few minutes we had another class rain down on us in the middle of our skills session.

 

[oceanbound]

I've only been diving less than a year so I still feel like a student. So I'll post how it would have made me feel. I would first wonder what I had done wrong. as far as the above poster stating that they felt that a student should not be kneeling on a plat form anyway, I can only believe that the poster was one of the few who took to diving like a "duck to water" but for a large percentage of us, it's constant work keeping our anxieties down to a manageable level in order to do something we love. especially as a new diver. and many times while in the springs (I'll assume is similar to a quarry), our plan includes heading to the platform in order to be sure we are ready to proceed. of course if there are students on the platform we would by pass it out.

As far as that quarry, If I was an instructor i would not be taking students back to that quarry until management can do something about the "bully". yep, that's what I said. If your going to act like your in high school then lets use those labels. Pushing and shoving in an adult world, especially in a sport where there is always a possibility of death is just wrong no matter how you want to see it. if the bully instructor had a problem with the other instructors students then take it up with the instructor top side. not on the student.

 

[katdiver]

Missed a good opportunity, should have had the police waiting for when he surfaced. Should have got close for a good ID too.

 

[ems_is_4_me]

I am new to diving and just got my cert a month ago. This is plan wrong. He could have caused a real problem. What if the student paniced and lost the reg or so on. This man should have know better and i hope he loses his instu lic for this. But i dont thank anything will happen.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Missed a good opportunity, should have had the police waiting for when he surfaced. Should have got close for a good ID too.

You weren't there, don't know what happened (other than what has been posted here) and you want someone arrested for pushing? Wow.

"He-said she-said" is NEVER a good enough reason to arrest someone (even if it happens regularly).

The underwater world is full is miscommunication -- there's no reason to get the POLICE involved, especially if there is no photo or video evidence of the alleged "assault".



Have a talk with the instructor on the surface. If they're a jerk, just leave. Otherwise, hopefully the situation will be resolved.


Really though...the police?

 

[Cave Diver]

...assault? Are you kidding me? That wasn't assault. Assault is someone coming after you with a knife or maybe beating your brains in. This was someone shoving...but I'd hardly call it assault. No wonder our nation is becoming more wussified every day. You people want to bring the police and lawyers in to this? Are you nuts? ...and people complain about us turning into such a litigious society...

I'm not a lawyer, but...

At Common Law, an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.

An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability. Generally, the common law definition is the same in criminal and Tort Law. There is, however, an additional Criminal Law category of assault consisting of an attempted but unsuccessful Battery.

Statutory definitions of assault in the various jurisdictions throughout the United States are not substantially different from the common-law definition.

Assault legal definition of Assault. Assault synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

 

[robandliza]

SparticleBrane
You don't happen to be the "other" ,bully instructor do you?...or is it that it's soooo long since you got certified that you've forgotten how you felt during your 4th dive ever. We all bow to your superior skills

The guy (you?) is an instructor and should know better.Period.Full stop.End of

Oh, and since when has photo or video evidence been a prerequisite in reporting to police. Do eye witness accounts not count anymore?

 

[ScubaSarus]

It may not be the biggest assault on record but that new diver could have sunk to the bottom and died if he could net get buoyancy under control.

File an assault charge; and although it may not stick, will send a message not to push other divers around. It wont look good for that instructor who may get a blemished record. Its the principal of the matter that counts.