Self Reliant Diving Required?

[ffdiver]

I am SDI Solo Certified as well.

I only trust myself

My Gear is in DIR Style

Remember you are there for you buddy, but, you are the most important.

---------- Post added May 3rd, 2015 at 06:32 PM ----------

PADI Will not teach it.

The reason they don't want self reliance is because they think that it will encourage People to dive alone

The Equipment is four times more expensive than basic open water gear.

PADI is there to make money, a new diver can't handle a Stage Bottle and such

Actually PADI does have a self reliant diver course, it's a distinctive specialty, and most PADI instructors are not qualified to teach it but it is an official PADI Course. Honestly, it's one of their better offerings as far as courses.

 

[gcarter]

I see, I do not think I had seriously considered just slinging a smaller sized bottle. That would definitely work, at least, for redundant air.

Another point I wanted to make but forgot to in my previous post is the problem that arises when "recreational" divers have such additional air. Now this may be a bit outside the scope of the discussion because it assumes that a rec diver with a pony will misuse it, but I will say it anyway as food for thought: recreational divers may be tempted to use their extra 4-11liters of air to get into some deco or deep trouble. I do not recall the exact logic or wording, but a short time ago a very salty old diver was telling me the story of why a standard bottle holds 11L. He explained, through some magic of numbers that went over my head, that the size of an 11L tank filled with air is generally too small to either be volume-effective at a depth great enough to pass NDLs. Whether or not his story is true is only partially relevant to my point that new divers with potentially twice as much air could more fesibly find themselves past NDLs if they were to use their tank as part of their gas supply.

I do not think it would be too far fetched to envision a diver justifying to themselves the use of an extra bottle and reg set that they schlepped around and paid for, despite their instructions saying it was for emergencies only. Again this all assumes a diver will misuse gear, which isn't necessarily a fair assumption. I am sure that currently quite a few divers utilize a pony for emergency redundancy, but I am not sure it would work so well for the general diving population. Remember that the general diving population has not taken it upon themselves to learn the intricacies of decompression theory, practice, or even remember from their classes why we have depth certifications beyond the "tank don't last as long when you are really deep" answer.

Yes, some people will be stupid and use their redundant air as part of their "regular" supply. It happens now, in the buddy system. It happens with people who carry ponies. Spare Air even. Some of them are people who should know better - tech divers, solo / self reliant divers, other various and assorted supposedly smart and well trained people. Normalization of deviance. Not even duct tape can fix stupid. However, your placement of quotes around "recreational" - and much of the rest of your post - implies that "recreational" divers are somehow inferior. You might want to rethink the pompous attitude you are projecting.

The salty old diver whose wisdom you are quoting is a blow-hard. Do you really think that there is some authority on high who decided the optimum size of a standard (?) tank based on their assessment of how best to manage diver behaviour? Do you have any idea how many sizes and varieties of tanks there are? Or how people use them and why?

 

[scubadude223]

You don't need to spend that much on a 1st and 2nd.

You don't necessarily need a dry suit.

You don't necessarily need any lights.

You don't necessarily need a BP/W.

Solo is only one aspect of describing the type of diving you will do, and the dive will dictate the required equipment, not a one-size-fits-all list.

The Solo Diving Course by SDI is very specific about what you require to do it safely.

There are no Scuba Police, you can dive Solo however you want.

To do Solo Diving Safely you need the equipment that I listed.


You need the best of everything because there is no one there to aid you if you run into trouble.

 

[Vavylon]

Sorry if the quotes came off wrong. In fact, I meant them the opposite way. "recreational" being what people are calling most divers who simply use the standard gear. I used it to distinguish those who dive within recreational limits but utilize different gear (ie myself diving independent SM doubles).

The meat of my second post was merely observations and inferences from my own experience. I would be willing to bet that I am the least experienced of the divers reading or replying to this thread and I am well aware of it, so believe me that no elitism is intended on my part. Just another new diver taking interest and trying to learn/share.

In regards to the saltdog, I suspected his story was mostly smoke
To me, the premise that a tank size was based around an optimal calculation for safety rather than what the technology the time permitted combined with what a standard person can carry was a bit of a stretch. Again, I brought it up mostly to illustrate my point.

 

[scubadude223]

Backplate and Wing is in my opinion the only way to go

 

[gcarter]

The Solo Diving Course by SDI is very specific about what you require to do it safely.

There are no Scuba Police, you can dive Solo however you want.

To do Solo Diving Safely you need the equipment that I listed.


You need the best of everything because there is no one there to aid you if you run into trouble.

Please demonstrate the tangible safety margin difference imparted for paying more for a regulator. There is no real safety difference, for example, between an Apex ATX50 and their top of the line. Other differences yes, but safety / reliability generally not.

If I am doing a 30ft shore dive on a reef 50ft offshore with a poodle jacket and no wetsuit, ditchable weight, mid-day (sunny), 100ft vis, no tidal exchange to speak of, flat calm water but I do not have:

- a drysuit
- any lights
- a bp/w

what about this situation means I cannot safely execute a solo dive?

I have not done the course. It may well be a CYA all things fit all dives approach, I don't know. The real world dictates different requirements for different dives, solo only being one factor. If the course truly teaches that one must dive a drysuit for redundant buoyancy as the only acceptable approach (as an example) than IMO it is a complete crock and not worth taking, and the card is not worth the ink used to print it.

The one thing I will not argue is redundant air, but in the scenario above I am sure that a very many well experienced solo divers would consider a CESA to the surface their redundancy.

---------- Post added May 4th, 2015 at 12:41 AM ----------

Backplate and Wing is in my opinion the only way to go

Fair statement as a preference.

Not so much as a requirement for solo safety.

 

[scubadude223]

There is no one that is going to stop you from Solo Diving how you want. Have at it

What I can say is that there are very specific requirements for SDI, the only group that offers the Solo Diver Course.

PADI Self reliant diver might teach certain things similar but they do not go as far and say Solo

BackPlate and Wing is necessary. By Going with this, failure points that are attributed to other BCD's are avoided.
The Jacket or Back inflate Traditional BCD is a liability that shouldn't occur on a Solo Dive.

I will Say it again. You can Solo Dive however you want. But not following the outline of SDI the only organisation that teaches the course puts you at a disadvantage.


Redundancy is very important on a Solo Dive.

You need double everything.

---------- Post added May 3rd, 2015 at 09:55 PM ----------

From your example, I do not know what will happen on a calm day in the water. The fact that you are going underprepared is a liability that the Solo Diver Should not responsibly undertake.

 

[gcarter]

From the 2007 SDI solo diving manual:



It then goes on to say that the only major modification to this list is redundant air.

Has the manual really changed that much?

I suspect a lot of your position is opinion, not SDI requirement.

 

[gcarter]

 

[scubadude223]

View attachment 207886

Having taken the course I can tell you it has


SDI Lists what is required, it is more than a Stage Bottle

---------- Post added May 3rd, 2015 at 10:08 PM ----------

Its not worth a argument.

Anyways. We both dive in Canada