Sharing air to extend bottom time

[supergaijin]

A long hose is simply not required for a comfortable, side by side air share between 2 experienced divers that have done this numerous times. To say otherwise, like I mentioned before, would be disingenuous.

Are you routing your octo from the left of the 1st stage? I have done a fair few horizontal air shares (albeit with students) and I have found that the traditional routing of the octo on the right shoulder is horrible for side-by-side swimming.

It's not a need to share, it's a want to share. I would not want to miss the whales!
The dive plan, gas consumption calculations include a few minutes of air sharing so the IS NO need to change the plan.

As an experienced diver, it is quite possible that you know both your own and your partners average DAC at different depths. Again as this is the beginners forum, this is unrealistic for beginner divers, and if only for that one reason alone, it should be avoided IMO.

Andy, SeaCobra, SuperG, et al: a (semi)serious question. Do any of you have a problem with people practicing air sharing during a dive? Not doing an ascent, but just practicing the act of sharing air? I'm not asking about the purpose or intent -- merely the act itself. As an instructor, I do advise ALL of my students to practice the ACT of sharing air during a dive and remind them that "you use it or lose it" applies.

For that to be a true practice of sharing air- your buddy would also need to breathe off you octo for a certain duration. PADI states 1 min to assume an ascent from above 18m. Given that this ascent rate is thought by many to be excessively fast, 2mins would be better. Better still it would then move in to ascent and oral inflation at the surface to reinforce all the steps of the procedure. For that reason I advocate air-sharing after completing a safety stop, or from shallow single dives where safety stops (while desired) are deemed to be not necessary.

 

[Divealpha]

I'm out of popcorn.......
Guess it's better to agree that people don't agree about air-sharing..
I just know, that if my wife and I had'nt practiced this "skill", we may have found ourselves in real danger in a real OOA situation. That's when the task load occurs. You are a beginner/new diver, OOA, and put the octo upside down, or have other issues with it.
Better be well prepared than not. The next time I roll of the boat with a closed valve, I'll open it, instead of looking at my second stage trying to figure out what's wrong, and surfacing in the last seconds I can hold my breath... What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger, but I'll rather learn things beforehand, if possible! And the buddy will be closer when descending.....
As I mentioned earlier, she(my buddy) got a free flow once on her second when she was starting breathing on my octo, and none of us had any problems with it. It just took some time to stop the free flow, and then we carried on with our dive(after checking air supplies...) We ascended a bit, but next time we agreed that the donator will watch the depth.....
We've been diving in several countries, and are starting to get some experience........ Usually we're last, been watching OWD's and rusty divers(also with DM cards) who uses up their air halfway, and have to stay on the DM's octo all the way back....(and we're going for Rescue next holiday...). So it's not always about extending dive time, but it's better getting back to shore underwater than over...

We will still "practice"sharing to make sure it's done automatically though.

 

[ti325v]

Upon reflection I have decided that any opinion I expressed would heat up somebody so I have withdrawn my comment.

 

[Teamcasa]

...If divers want to practice sharing air that is fine.
If divers want to use their buddies air during the dive and everyone is in agreement, that is an individual buddy team decision.
I would not do this in my personal diving and would not present it as a good tool to use during dive planning to my students or dive customers.

Thank you for a clear, reasoned response and one that I agree with you on.

---------- Post added ----------

...How does my overall argument hold up? Well, this goes back to issues on 'should versus could'... and 'convenience versus correct'. Nothing more, nothing less.
...
I simply feel (my opinion) that there is a better long-term method to deal with the problem of inconsistent air-consumption within a pair/team.... a method that retains the principle of self-sufficiency in conjunction with effective gas planning/management. That principle being: that divers should enter the water with sufficient personal gas to carry out their planned dive.

Thanks Andy, and for the most part, I agree with you. We, my wife and I simply choose a different method of gas planing under those narrow constraints I've listed in previous post.

 

[windapp]

I am looking at all of these posts, and it seems strange that I seem to be the only one who cannot get past the OP's divemaster's behaviour. Anyone with a head on their shoulders can see that if done properly, air sharing could be a safe part of a gas management plan. What I don't like is that fact that the DM pushed this manouver onto his/her client without any pre-consultation. When we hire a dive master/dive guide, we are offloading some of the planning work onto that person. However, as certified divers, we are responsible for our own safety, and, therefore, supposed to be in on the entire plan. We are trusting our guide to assist with making our dive safe and comfortable, not confusing and upredictable.

 

[Teamcasa]

Are you routing your octo from the left of the 1st stage? I have done a fair few horizontal air shares (albeit with students) and I have found that the traditional routing of the octo on the right shoulder is horrible for side-by-side swimming.

We have no problem with the Octo's traditional mounting. Our technique is that when I am using her Octo, I am slightly above and a touch behind her right side. As she is a fine diver and trims out nicely, it's works out just fine.

As an experienced diver, it is quite possible that you know both your own and your partners average DAC at different depths. Again as this is the beginners forum, this is unrealistic for beginner divers, and if only for that one reason alone, it should be avoided IMO..

I'd agree that air sharing as my wife and I practice, should be avoided by beginning divers. However, I do feel that beginning divers should practice air sharing drills on most dives. They just don't need to share for long periods of time.

For that to be a true practice of sharing air- your buddy would also need to breathe off you octo for a certain duration. PADI states 1 min to assume an ascent from above 18m. Given that this ascent rate is thought by many to be excessively fast, 2mins would be better. Better still it would then move in to ascent and oral inflation at the surface to reinforce all the steps of the procedure. For that reason I advocate air-sharing after completing a safety stop, or from shallow single dives where safety stops (while desired) are deemed to be not necessary.

That would be true, provided you were in a teaching environment or actually practicing an OOA drill. We simply practice the sharing part on non-training dives.

 

[windapp]

I'd agree that air sharing as my wife and I practice, should be avoided by beginning divers. However, I do feel that beginning divers should practice air sharing drills on most dives. They just don't need to share for long periods of time.

With the exception being on cold water dives of course.

 

[supergaijin]

I am looking at all of these posts, and it seems strange that I seem to be the only one who cannot get past the OP's divemaster's behaviour.

The vast majority agree that DM's on the job shouldn't air-share to prolong dives. Somehow we managed to get past it, and the discussion moved in to other aspects/merits of air-sharing to prolong bottom time vs. thinly disguised ways of practicing emergency drills

We have no problem with the Octo's traditional mounting. Our technique is that when I am using her Octo, I am slightly above and a touch behind her right side. As she is a fine diver and trims out nicely, it's works out just fine.

I wouldn't be happy to have someone in my 'blind-spot' but obviously your wife is fine with it.

 

[TSandM]

As much as I hate having somebody behind and above me, if they are breathing off my spare regulator, I really don't have to worry much about whether they're there or not

 

[RTee]

Are you routing your octo from the left of the 1st stage? I have done a fair few horizontal air shares (albeit with students) and I have found that the traditional routing of the octo on the right shoulder is horrible for side-by-side swimming.


As an experienced diver, it is quite possible that you know both your own and your partners average DAC at different depths. Again as this is the beginners forum, this is unrealistic for beginner divers, and if only for that one reason alone, it should be avoided IMO.

When doing so with two divers that are used to dive together, probably the best position for the individual using the standard 40 in hose octo is to slightly step up on the right hand side with his left hand holding the valve assembly of the individual providing the air. This has worked very well for me in the past.

Wrt your second statement, it gives an incentive to those basic and new divers to start inquiring about SAC/DAC/RMV (which should constitute the basis of gas management from a planning perspective), start recording their own under various diving conditions (warm, cold, level of activities, etc) and then apply it to their own team dive planning.