Rubicon Research Repository: Item 123456789/1599
Only an abstract, but interesting.
also
Rubicon Research Repository: Item 123456789/1543
Should or would you have your children dive with you?
- Thread starter Missdirected
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Rubicon Research Repository: Item 123456789/1599
Only an abstract, but interesting.
also
Rubicon Research Repository: Item 123456789/1543
divewithjay
Contributor
My thought on the bone growth issue where my daughter is concerned has been: why risk it, she only has to wait a few years to go deeper. It will give her time to become a better diver before advancing to deeper diving and she's perfectly happy diving shallow reefs and wrecks for now.
More per hour of participation? Lots of kids get hurt playing ball or just riding bikes but virtually every kid is doing those things.
Still, you might have missed my point. If Dad, mom and Jr go out in the backyard to throw a ball around (I didn't say anything about baseball), the most likely consequence of not being good at it is that they will drop the ball a lot. When they drop the ball while diving, things can get really ugly, as in the incident I mentioned.
In any case, the relative safety of baseball wouldn't enter into my decision to take a child diving or not. The risks involved in diving are unique to diving and I would NOT place myself in the role of a diving supervisor if I was a novice diver.
redrover
Guest
Just some data for consideration of who is more likely to be injured
I did Ski Resort Accident Analysis for two resorts nowhere near each other for periods approx 7 years apart. Accidents being within property, the resort provided service and including deaths.
It was a constant and substantial majority 19 and 20 year old male having accidents.
Any other grouping of male, female, skill level and age were roughly equal and evenly distributed.
Young male adults predominantly requiring advanced life support and/or likelihood of death resulting from skill level and conditions judgment (speed and collision.)
Deaths extremely rare, with very, very few at under 20 years of age. Death resulting from skill level and conditions judgment concentrated at young male adults. Death from medical such as heart attack (most common medical) concentrated at over 40 years.
Relative few accidents occurring during Professional Instruction supervision and up to World Cup Ski level (racing) coach supervision.
In addition death and rescue response off property occurring nearby (in not routinely controlled for safe conditions i.e. avalanche risk) resulted from poor judgment of conditions. The predominant factors not utilizing the available condition assessment and lack of education to make any judgment.
I did Ski Resort Accident Analysis for two resorts nowhere near each other for periods approx 7 years apart. Accidents being within property, the resort provided service and including deaths.
It was a constant and substantial majority 19 and 20 year old male having accidents.
Any other grouping of male, female, skill level and age were roughly equal and evenly distributed.
Young male adults predominantly requiring advanced life support and/or likelihood of death resulting from skill level and conditions judgment (speed and collision.)
Deaths extremely rare, with very, very few at under 20 years of age. Death resulting from skill level and conditions judgment concentrated at young male adults. Death from medical such as heart attack (most common medical) concentrated at over 40 years.
Relative few accidents occurring during Professional Instruction supervision and up to World Cup Ski level (racing) coach supervision.
In addition death and rescue response off property occurring nearby (in not routinely controlled for safe conditions i.e. avalanche risk) resulted from poor judgment of conditions. The predominant factors not utilizing the available condition assessment and lack of education to make any judgment.
fisherdvm
Contributor
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I didn't get my son certified until after I got my rescue course, and he was a competent swimmer. I had about 75 dives, and swam as well or better than he did. It was a good thing, because at 11, he was great as a swimmer, but terrible as a diver. I can not expect him to help me out at the surface, nor below if I were in trouble.
So we stick with easy shallow dives, until he is stronger and a better diver. I find it disturbing, as I have mentioned before, when I see a family of 3 or 4 take OW at the same time. I personally would discourage this if I were a dive shop. There are just too many kinks to work out as a new diver, and I would hate to see a young son or daughter trying to rescue dad or mom, or even vice versa.
If we can have an incident two winters ago where an instructor teaching his wife how to dive lost her at the surface in the florida Keys while finishing her OW dive. If an instructor can not save his wife at the surface, how can a child save a parent? I also find it discusting that dive resort regularly let newly certified divers out on rough sea, or forcing them to go on deep dive (because they don't want to run 2 boats to cater to experienced vs newbies). Ultimately, it is the diver's responsibility to evaluate his/her dives, but a child can not do that - despite carrying a c card.
So we stick with easy shallow dives, until he is stronger and a better diver. I find it disturbing, as I have mentioned before, when I see a family of 3 or 4 take OW at the same time. I personally would discourage this if I were a dive shop. There are just too many kinks to work out as a new diver, and I would hate to see a young son or daughter trying to rescue dad or mom, or even vice versa.
If we can have an incident two winters ago where an instructor teaching his wife how to dive lost her at the surface in the florida Keys while finishing her OW dive. If an instructor can not save his wife at the surface, how can a child save a parent? I also find it discusting that dive resort regularly let newly certified divers out on rough sea, or forcing them to go on deep dive (because they don't want to run 2 boats to cater to experienced vs newbies). Ultimately, it is the diver's responsibility to evaluate his/her dives, but a child can not do that - despite carrying a c card.
redrover
Guest
And along the line of children making judgment calls, and rescuing their parent; two incidents where I was SAR participant.
Father and adult son hunting for period of days from cabin accommodations. Both went out to hunt separately, son returned midday, worried father had not taken his insulin shot at correct time, went out for a look, calling out and firing signal shots. Heard one shot back but dismissed it as another hunter and called SAR at dark.
First set of response teams exhausted, my K-9 group were called out and after briefing I was assigned to search the area least likely he would and could go, into a deep ravine and the only one not having been searched by anyone yet.
Prime judgment call from son having intimate knowledge of fathers habits, health and his historical acceptable risk level. “Dad would never go there.” Son was unhappy one team was even ‘wasted’ there but Sheriff insisted on following up with the gunshot heard.
I traversed the edge of the ravine looking for a scent track with evidence he (and several others) had done the same. Unable to locate an obvious easiest way down or scent indicating where father did, eventually did a somewhat controlled fall down into the ravine. At the edge of a 1000’ boulder field drop my dog located the father deceased, at the one heard gunshot vicinity.
(In support of the son, my thoughts upon covering the area were, “How would anybody get a deer out of here? And surprising a shout would not be heard from on top.)
Grandfather, father (again diabetic) and his 13 year old son out hunting in remote approx 11,000’ mountains. Father and son wearing jeans and cowboy boots in light snow cover and approaching storm, set off in afternoon of arrival to scan from campsite to the 1st ravine, did not return. Storm prevented grandfather from searching more than that and when storm abated he made his way down and called for SAR (with intensifying storm making that heroic in it’s own.)
My K-9 group flown in by CAP were able to helicopter up in a break in the storm at dawn. I was directed to beeline to top of second ridge and begin at my discretion. In late afternoon I got a vague air scent alert then a gunshot from 3rd ridge moments later, upon arrival found the father deceased.
The 13 YO had been unable to disagree with father (father son relationship) to go past their planned stopping point in light of setting sun and approaching storm. They sheltered for the night, set out again in the blinding snowstorm at daylight. Son was unable to convince father they were headed in the wrong direction and choose to not abandon father. Father began displaying signs of not having diabetic meds intensifying sons arguing, seeking solutions to misdirect father (none of which worked) and need to stick with father.
Day 3 father collapses; son constructs shelter from tree boughs, drags now combatant father in. I heard the next to last bullet late in the afternoon of day 4.
It took 5 men to get out the grotesquely distorted father who froze fighting death to the end. In the hours I spent with the son getting out; found him to be one of the finest young men I’ve ever met. With no formal training such as Scouts he displayed formidable courage, spirit, composure and resourcefulness.
Father and adult son hunting for period of days from cabin accommodations. Both went out to hunt separately, son returned midday, worried father had not taken his insulin shot at correct time, went out for a look, calling out and firing signal shots. Heard one shot back but dismissed it as another hunter and called SAR at dark.
First set of response teams exhausted, my K-9 group were called out and after briefing I was assigned to search the area least likely he would and could go, into a deep ravine and the only one not having been searched by anyone yet.
Prime judgment call from son having intimate knowledge of fathers habits, health and his historical acceptable risk level. “Dad would never go there.” Son was unhappy one team was even ‘wasted’ there but Sheriff insisted on following up with the gunshot heard.
I traversed the edge of the ravine looking for a scent track with evidence he (and several others) had done the same. Unable to locate an obvious easiest way down or scent indicating where father did, eventually did a somewhat controlled fall down into the ravine. At the edge of a 1000’ boulder field drop my dog located the father deceased, at the one heard gunshot vicinity.
(In support of the son, my thoughts upon covering the area were, “How would anybody get a deer out of here? And surprising a shout would not be heard from on top.)
Grandfather, father (again diabetic) and his 13 year old son out hunting in remote approx 11,000’ mountains. Father and son wearing jeans and cowboy boots in light snow cover and approaching storm, set off in afternoon of arrival to scan from campsite to the 1st ravine, did not return. Storm prevented grandfather from searching more than that and when storm abated he made his way down and called for SAR (with intensifying storm making that heroic in it’s own.)
My K-9 group flown in by CAP were able to helicopter up in a break in the storm at dawn. I was directed to beeline to top of second ridge and begin at my discretion. In late afternoon I got a vague air scent alert then a gunshot from 3rd ridge moments later, upon arrival found the father deceased.
The 13 YO had been unable to disagree with father (father son relationship) to go past their planned stopping point in light of setting sun and approaching storm. They sheltered for the night, set out again in the blinding snowstorm at daylight. Son was unable to convince father they were headed in the wrong direction and choose to not abandon father. Father began displaying signs of not having diabetic meds intensifying sons arguing, seeking solutions to misdirect father (none of which worked) and need to stick with father.
Day 3 father collapses; son constructs shelter from tree boughs, drags now combatant father in. I heard the next to last bullet late in the afternoon of day 4.
It took 5 men to get out the grotesquely distorted father who froze fighting death to the end. In the hours I spent with the son getting out; found him to be one of the finest young men I’ve ever met. With no formal training such as Scouts he displayed formidable courage, spirit, composure and resourcefulness.
I have taught a couple of father son teams both discover scuba and open water if the kid is very young the children and diving information is very sobering for the parents , my kids will learn to dive if when they are old enough they still want to . pick your instructor carefully , find someone prepared to spend any amount of time necessary, who is prepared to call you aside and discuss your kids and if necessary hurt your feelings , don't interfere in the course but don't think you can hand away all responsibility for your kids. oh and if you do learn with your kids I pity you they will usually be faster to pick it up , fearless and not worried about you , and if you don't go deeper that 4 to 8 meters your air will last longer and so will the dive.remember if you are diving with a 13 year old and you get into troube you are asking a bit much for him or her to pull you out
I have certified my 18 yr old daughter and am working on my son right now (11 yr old), they both wanted to do this on their own , so we are on our way.
Beachlover
Guest
My daughter is 12 years old and has no interest in getting certified right now.She was my awesome snorkle buddy in Hawaii two years ago and she loved it. I do hope that one day she wants to earn her C card, but if not, that's ok,too. I would love to share diving with her, but I would never try to force her into it.
Skeeter1097
Guest
Has nothing to do with age. My daughter and I trained and got certified together. Wee and my son-in-law dive every time we get a Chance.I am looking forward to the day I get to dive with my grand children.
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