Should we all strive to be divemasters?

[PaulB]

I agree with taking a rescue class. I believe that all divers should take it. It makes for a safer and more secure diving enviroment.

As for DM, I think that it was a good suggestion to atleast get the DM book and read up on it. Dive managment and knowing how to deal with newer divers is very good knowledge to have. But I don't think it's necessary to get DM cert. unless you are planning on going career.

 

[Bomber]

MHK once bubbled...
As a "regular" diver if you assist in an emergency you are covered under the Good Samaritan laws, and as such would be exempt from any potential litigation associated with your efforts. As a "professional" ie; Divemaster you are now presumed to have the training and as such no longer qualify as a Good Samaritan. I'm NOT a lawyer but I've consulted with several prominent lawyers widely recognized as scuba specialists about this point, and the advice I've heard is that absent a "reason" to enter the ranks of a professional, the potential liability outweights the benefit, such as the term is used.

Dang tootin'

I don't want the liability.

All of a sudden you go from having a good time, to being potentially liable for everyone you dive with.

 

[diverbrian]

Bomber once bubbled...


Dang tootin'

I don't want the liability.

All of a sudden you go from having a good time, to being potentially liable for everyone you dive with.

I was warned about that the minute that I signed up for the course. But, I wanted to do it and these are some examples why:

I was assisting in an OW class at a local lake last weekend. Just watching the student's progression between the first dive of the class and the fourth was rewarding beyond belief. (Especially since I was able to be a part of it !)

Also, I was at a shop fun dive today and a little girl who I assisted in the pool was asking me for help as I had been their assistant for their classroom and pool. I will add that the particular father and two daughters in this case are all certified. The daughters did their OW dives in Cozumel. I may not have been "working" but I was happy to offer the help that I could. I have no children and sometimes tend to think of the younger students as my neices or nephews. It is just one of the most rewarding things that I do, even though I won't ever really get paid (besides gratutity type things from the shop.).

It is still worth the liability to me.

 

[gjmmotors]

If liablity is the determining factor of your dm class, you dont have to be a teaching or helping dm, you can take the class and not get the card or just dont work at a shop as a dm.
ANd if you do decide to become a dm, you can cover your ass by haveing all paper work signed stamped and sealed. You are not responisable for a persons actions. All you are required to do is act in good faith and act based on your previous training.
If you are in a situation and you think that if they know your a dm youll be asked more of. Just show them your bow card and nothing else.
<start rant>
People really have to take there own lives and actions seriously, and not rely on a person who only went through a padi or naui or whatever couple day crash course to be a scuba professional.

My feelings on rescue diver are simple. Just because you take the class and get the card you are not a "Rescue Diver" you are however a more trained and maybe a better diver for it.
I have dove with many people of various levels of cert, sometimes the best divers are those you dont say oh im a padi dm with 100 logged dives. ( those dives could be in a 45 foot quarry with 60 foot vis)
Im pretty good at observing people and there dive skills to determine if there background is bogus.
However i will take a persons word for it if they show me there gue full cave instructor card. And then i will pepper them with tons of questions about diving, so that i may learn more.
Just having a card doesent make you a better diver. I know of instructors with merely 100 dives, and they are supposed to be seasoned pros. (one instructor i know did a deep dive blew the deco stops, got a dcs hit and then went (two months later) and completed the i.e.)
-g
ahhh the beauty of a self regulated industry

 

[diverbrian]

I will point out that most of the dive professionals that I see have not gone through "Boot Camp" just to get their card. The ones that do may not find a shop to work for in this neck of the woods.

I can intern for now, but sooner or later, the owner of our LDS will insist that I have a card so that I can be actually be useful teaching refreshers and snorkelling and allowing him to legally (and more important, ethically) increase the size of the class. And nobody that I know of is going to spend six months or more (usually more at this shop) to learn to be a Dive Control Specialist and NOT get the card. For the purposes that you refer to (vacation and not wanting to get stuck with a poblem diver), I show my AOW in order to keep their DM from regulating how I want to dive. I find that an AOW card with a Michigan address gets me ignored by Divemasters in the Caribbean. Ignored by DM's down there is where I want to be.

 

[Bomber]

diverbrian once bubbled...
It is still worth the liability to me.

I'll give you two real life examples.

It's common for the dive industry employees down here to take a lot of "busman's holidays". That is, go out diving with friends and other businesses on their days off.

One, a DM was out on another business dive boat on her day off. There was a problem with one of their customers. All the employees on the boat were handling the situation, there was no room for her anyway. She was however standing by in case they needed her. Unfortunately, the customer didn't fair to well. The customers family took the dive business and crew to court. They also took her to court because she did nothing!

Two, there have been plenty of instances where a DM tried their best to help out in a situation. Only to be sued for every imaginable thing you can imagine.

Bottom line, you get the card you get the responsibility.

 

[diverbrian]

I take my example from Provo. The owner of the LDS took us down there. He is an instructor certifier and Platinum Pro 5000 diver. He never mentioned that to the charter operator or the other people there. Obviously, everybody in our group knew that. It is hard to sue a bystander if you didn't know that he was a professional in the first place.

If I do things professionally, even there, you may be able to take me to court, but I do carry insurance for that. Even then, I doubt that you would win. There have been lawsuits filed in instances such have been mentioned. I have any heard of one winning result up here and none against a dive professional out of our LDS or any of the three or four dive shops within 75 miles of here. Juries tend to figure that if you are diving, you should know that you are taking a risk. So long as the professional (me, soon enough as well as many people on this board with far more experience) does not display negligence or a lack of undo standard of care, we are not likely to lose a lawsuit on a "busman's holiday." In our own classes, that is a little more dicy. But, it is still manageable if I do my job the way that I am supposed to. This is the reason for taking over a half of a year to finish my qualifications. This way I learn to do the job right! The other thing is that I love it.

I have said that this isn't for everyone. But, if you have the attitude that you want nothing more to do with your free time than dive and to SHARE that diving with others, DM/ DiveCon is something to consider. If you are only looking to be a better dive buddy, take a stress and rescue/ rescue course and an entry level technical class. The first is obvious. The second is that a large part of the entry level training for the tech agencies is working as team, which means accounting for your buddy and paying attention to him/ her.

The above is not the opinion of anyone but the author, so take it for what it is worth.:ggrin:

 

[ns2ny]

Just to add my two cents...

I agree with many of the posts that the Rescue Diver course is worthwhile. I also agree with those that recommend the Red Cross training in first aid and CPR before doing the Rescue Course and in lieu of the PADI First aid.

IMHO the RC will give a much better overview of health and safety issues, dealing with basic trauma, CPR, AED. Also the RC has a number of course so you can pick and choose if you want to continue to increase your skills.

On the Divemaster, contrary to some posts, it is not just about supervision and being the tank monkey. The stamina and diving skills that you must complete are helpful. Like many of the other posts, it depends more on your instructor but the extra focus helps to build your skills and confidence.

david

 

[nazgul810]

I'll never use the DM for employment and at my age (57) just attaining that level would be challenge enough. My main thought is just improving skills.

It's kind of funny that Al posted this. He is now an open water instructor who seems to teach on a regular basis (I don't use the dive store he works at too often since it's in the next town over and the one in town fills my needs more than adequatley).

 

[jawfish]

If the question was "Should we all strive for rescue certification?" my answer would be YES but for Divemaster Certification, I have to say no. DM certification is a professional role that should be entered into by those suited for it.