The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
@Razorista I don't dive around idiots often. I set up my gear for real world diving.
Sidemount and helmets in open water
- Thread starter Razorista
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
You have the discussion that OOA divers always will rip the regulator from your mouth in panic here on scubaboard as well.
Not a real world situation, but a frequent training situation, especially if the main training purpose is just 'stress testing'.
The mentioned instructor often jumped at students from behind an obstruction, preferably upside down or something, without a regulator in his mouth while screaming bubbles.
Could get anyone close to loosing his nerves and is very good at controlling the situation without the student realizing.
Not a real world situation, but a frequent training situation, especially if the main training purpose is just 'stress testing'.
The mentioned instructor often jumped at students from behind an obstruction, preferably upside down or something, without a regulator in his mouth while screaming bubbles.
Could get anyone close to loosing his nerves and is very good at controlling the situation without the student realizing.
Isn't the 'paniced' diver a frequent training scenario everywhere?
I had people grabbing my tanks and unhooking them, pulling hoses completely around my neck and choking me with them, stealing fins or even cutting fin straps, ripping of my mask so hard the strap broke or letting it go in my face from 30cm distance, similar things happened with the helmet, but rarely, since I avoided wearing it when expecting something like that.
I had people grabbing my tanks and unhooking them, pulling hoses completely around my neck and choking me with them, stealing fins or even cutting fin straps, ripping of my mask so hard the strap broke or letting it go in my face from 30cm distance, similar things happened with the helmet, but rarely, since I avoided wearing it when expecting something like that.
Last edited:
Wookie
Proud to be a Chaos Muppet
Staff member
ScubaBoard Business Sponsor
ScubaBoard Supporter
Scuba Instructor
I was taught in my rescue class 20 years ago to control the situation. You never ever ever let a panicked diver within reach of you unless you know and prepare for them. You do this by maintaining situational awareness and good knowledge of your buddy, their comfort, and by anticipating their actions. For anyone to pass you on a rescue by placing you in a dangerous situation breaks the bond of trust between an instructor and his student.
Lets go about training for the panicked diver another way. You and your buddy are in a wreck. You've planned the dive, you've discussed the dive, and discussed what can go wrong and what each of you will do in the event of a silt-out, a cave-in, an OOA situation, and 4 or 5 other scenarios. You've got it down. Now, your buddy is looking everywhere but at you, he's fumbling with his gear, he is futzing with his light, he's obviously distracted. It's your job to find out what is wrong, and control the situation. Maybe he has other problems, maybe he has a problem with the dive. I'm not here to teach you rescue class again, and i could go on for pages, but the best way to deal with a panicked diver is to prevent the situation from happening in the first place. Anyway, you are in the wreck and you see your buddy get that wild look in their eye. You see this because you're paying attention. You see the look and you stop him, you look him in the eye, you control the situation, you stop, think, breath, and then act. You probably exit the wreck. You never let it go to panic.
Now, maybe even after all of the training, you still run into a panicked diver. I've launched tens of thousands of dives from my boat, and I've run into true panic less than a handful of times over 18 years. When dealing with a panicked diver, make them chase you until they wear themselves out, or near drown. A near-drowning victim and a tired victim is way easier to deal with than a panicked victim. Almost no diver will come to you panicked and rip your regulator out of your mouth without you knowing. In 6000+ dives I've never ever ever seen it.
That's why I say it's a crappy training technique used by small minded sadistic instructors. Sure, it's fun to screw with the nub, but what benefit does it provide? If we had to deal with panicked divers every day, then maybe I'd have a different attitude, but it just doesn't happen. Ever in my experience.
Lets go about training for the panicked diver another way. You and your buddy are in a wreck. You've planned the dive, you've discussed the dive, and discussed what can go wrong and what each of you will do in the event of a silt-out, a cave-in, an OOA situation, and 4 or 5 other scenarios. You've got it down. Now, your buddy is looking everywhere but at you, he's fumbling with his gear, he is futzing with his light, he's obviously distracted. It's your job to find out what is wrong, and control the situation. Maybe he has other problems, maybe he has a problem with the dive. I'm not here to teach you rescue class again, and i could go on for pages, but the best way to deal with a panicked diver is to prevent the situation from happening in the first place. Anyway, you are in the wreck and you see your buddy get that wild look in their eye. You see this because you're paying attention. You see the look and you stop him, you look him in the eye, you control the situation, you stop, think, breath, and then act. You probably exit the wreck. You never let it go to panic.
Now, maybe even after all of the training, you still run into a panicked diver. I've launched tens of thousands of dives from my boat, and I've run into true panic less than a handful of times over 18 years. When dealing with a panicked diver, make them chase you until they wear themselves out, or near drown. A near-drowning victim and a tired victim is way easier to deal with than a panicked victim. Almost no diver will come to you panicked and rip your regulator out of your mouth without you knowing. In 6000+ dives I've never ever ever seen it.
That's why I say it's a crappy training technique used by small minded sadistic instructors. Sure, it's fun to screw with the nub, but what benefit does it provide? If we had to deal with panicked divers every day, then maybe I'd have a different attitude, but it just doesn't happen. Ever in my experience.
He was not 'my' instructor. He was 'a' instructor.
I do not think he led me to believe anything, he was not the first and not the last to do something like this.
A common pool game here is 'every man for himself' where everybody tries to close of other peoples valves, removes fins, presses or disconnects inflators...
Even tec divers commonly steal small things from each other during deco or secretly place silly markers on each others D-rings.
An instructor simulating emergencies happens quite frequently in some groups and that can get a bit out of line after a few years.
I have met people who did not mind their instructor simulating something on every dive.
Cave certs are not frowed upon in Germany and you don't have to be a 'real explorer' or have to have a degree to go caving.
Instrustors ripping the reg out of someones mouth is not a 'German thing'.
All these 'issues' Razor is having are 'Razor related issues' it seems. German diving is like diving anywhere else and agency standards are the same as in the States.
Last edited:
I personally do not like behavior like that, but you meet one occasionally.
Often in a position to 'win' discussions a noob might start.
It's a bit off topic though, so I will share this story:
We had a sunken mobile home at one of my frequent training sites.
The ceiling window was about 40-40cm, I could not pass two 7liter tanks through side by side.
Had some sharp edges, perfect for testing after I realized I could just manage it.
Got stuck there several times.
On one solo dive I forgot I had placed some weights badly until I had the shoulders through and had to go backward/upward.
Got the drysuit valve stuck than, ripped the helmet and mask of my head going up a meter and had to get back inside to collect them through a side window.
Last edited:
A cave cert does not get you one step closer to entering Blautopf or something like it.
Several other places are so secret nobody even knows their names.
Meeting an explorer without a cave diving cert is not uncommon on the other hand.
Several other places are so secret nobody even knows their names.
Meeting an explorer without a cave diving cert is not uncommon on the other hand.
Wookie
Proud to be a Chaos Muppet
Staff member
ScubaBoard Business Sponsor
ScubaBoard Supporter
Scuba Instructor
I too have noticed this. This entire conversation started with "This is how I, Razor, do things. What do you all think?" and as we tell this person what we think, we get back "But this is how I do things, and It's the only way I'm going to do things", which to me is another way to say "I really don't care what you think".
So, cool. I'm OK with that. It doesn't affect my life. Go do your thing. Dive any way that makes you comfortable. get your reg ripped out on a regular basis. Practice the scenarios that you will likely never see. Just don't ask me what I think of it.
Similar threads
