Simple W/W harness for AL 80's

[CamG]

Greetings Ron and I have been trying to dive the harness in the manner it was created or should I say has been created.
I have come to the conclusion, that if one has the correct body mass and exposure protection it would be possible.
However as we know we are all different my 5'10 200 lbs frame with 7mm, hood or hooded 5/3mm vest it is a real pain to figure out!
Not that I have not enjoyed playing with it but it is a constant buoyancy battle.
In the pool that is fun in OW, well not so much depending on the conditions.

My fear is that some of my cold water brothers are buying this harness and wishing to dive it in cold water.
This is not a cold water rig!
If you are going to put a wing on it then buy another rig with the appropriate lift.
As I stated I love to build my own stuff but you quickly reach a spot where you would be better, "safer" if you trust another engineer for the basic design then retro fit it to you.
I do not want to demean this harness because I like it but when it comes to lift verses safety you will need to be very careful.

I was in the pool yesterday and dove the harness with 4lbs on my belt ankle weights strapped onto my light tank and 1.3 lbs on my buckle/ crotch strap.
I was a bit off center due to a roll on in the car, left tank 3000 - right tank 1200.
It became easier after about 45min but was not bad at all.
As we broke into the 2 hr mark my buddy became very light so I unsnapped the tank weights and put them on his tank.
I then moved the right tank snap to the front d-ring and it was down to 750psi but became very manageable!
I have not taken both tanks down yet, so I did.
As you have stated it would take about 6lbs to maintain buoyancy, + or - the tank weights and at 3 ATA it could get dicey.

I always dive safe and never without redundant lift in OW so I will have to give it a go in the OW this summer.
NO way is it happening till the water warms up.
I do not want to put my DS on to use this harness.
I hava a Nomad that I use for caving and OW.

I guess that I like the looks of the UTD/DSS wing but if I have to put to much wing to it, why not wear the Nomad?
This harness was made for AL 80's in warm water it is just that simple.
I have seen it dove very well under those conditions so why try to make it something it is not?
I am not being to critical but rather experimenting to see if it would work for me.
I am considering using it as a single tank SM option more like the suggested use of the UTD Z.
Shallow cold water diving it may be fine we will see.
In the mean time it is a blast to spend 2 or more hours in the pool inventing new ways to train skills and or think up drill that are a pain to perform. "multiple failures"

Thanks for the ideas I appreciate all of them and will try anything!
That is the great thing about the pool keep it real and tear it down to become familiar with every component of a system.
When the ice breaks though OW hear I go, DS and doubles rolling out!

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

 

[rongoodman]

I understand the need for more lift for cold water and steel tanks, but I just can't get into all the padding, buckles, breaks, and straps of the Nomad and its cousins. If I decide I need more lift than the UTD wing will provide, I'll look into the Armadillo, with its 35# wing. Of course, Tobin's wing is the wild card in all this, but we'll just have to wait and see on that. I think the Razor with Al80s or Faber 85s will get keep me busy for a while.

 

[CamG]

Greetings Ron I will test the Faber 85's very soon as well but I anticipate that I will be heavy we will see.
I love Tobin's wing the design is awesome and the manor in which it was designed even better.
The price is the only negative and the fact it might not be sold independent of a harness is a bummer as well.
I will continue my training and experimenting with the harness.
The Nomad I speak of has all padding removed and is not much more that a bare harness with a chest strap.
There are the pinch buckles on the shoulder straps so I know that one continuos piece of webbing is more simplistic.
I have been considering using the simple harness as a base to build a clone.
I have seen some others so I will keep pondering.

CamG Keep....Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

 

[atedeschi]

The only failure on a stripped nomad is just the two plastic buckles and they have a high strength rating. As long as gear is not slammed on them you will have no problems. Been diving my nomad this way for about 4 years, SMing 85s, two stages, scooter and use it with my ccr as well. It in my opinion the best option for sm with steels tanks and all around setup. I use it in FL and in the ocean in the NE. The razor is nice for realy tight stuff were inflation in not an issue because you are scrapping.

 

[CamG]

Greetings Anthony I would totally agree with that observation.
I have yet to get into really tight stuff and am working into that when training and experience will allow.
Plenty of time I am not in a hurry!
I am loving researching and training with the different configurations to make every dive case specific.
By that I mean be able to use whatever it takes to do the dive,"go there" safely and get back out.
Cave diving is my passion but I also love wreck and other OW pursuits as well.
There are times when one configuration wrks better than the other so why not be versatile.

Thanks for the comments and I appreciate the thoughts as they have spurred me on to thinking about new ways to adapt and configure.

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

 

[rongoodman]

Those weight pockets on the Trim device are pretty small--I have a couple of 3# bullet weights on order. AG says they sell soft weight pouches that will fit there, and hold up to 4# of shot each.

Update: The 3# bullet weights won't fit, they're a little too large in diameter for the zipper to close. It will either have to be 2# weights in the pockets, UTD's soft weight pouch, or ankle weights as someone else suggested.

 

[atedeschi]

The key is to keep things as close to possible on all setups. No matter what my setup, OC, CCR, BM or SM my liftbags, lights, spools etc are all in the same locations. My deco bottles are setup the same and attached the same ways. The key is muscle memory for emegencies situations.

 

[CWSWine]

Update: The 3# bullet weights won't fit, they're a little too large in diameter for the zipper to close. It will either have to be 2# weights in the pockets, UTD's soft weight pouch, or ankle weights as someone else suggested.

Just to let you know - the XsScuba 3lbs ankle weights fit but I had to cut the buckles and straps off and they are still a really tight fit. I think I'm going to get some 2lbs and use them instead of 3lbs or open up the end of 3lbs and make then 2 1/2 lbs.

 

[CWSWine]

The key is to keep things as close to possible on all setups. No matter what my setup, OC, CCR, BM or SM my liftbags, lights, spools etc are all in the same locations. My deco bottles are setup the same and attached the same ways. The key is muscle memory for emegencies situations.

Just another reason to buy the UTD Delta Trim Device to keep all the inflators coming off the bottom of the wing like the Z-System and my Hollis SM100.

 

[atedeschi]

Just another reason to buy the UTD Delta Trim Device to keep all the inflators coming off the bottom of the wing like the Z-System and my Hollis SM100.

Or you can use a nomad as well. I have not found a need to have the inflator on the bottom and I believe that would be more of a pain with CCR.

Issue I have with Hollis is the same as the expedition nomad (why i use the modular setup) is if you damage a rail or any of that piece you need a new harness. Those buttplates are not constructed of much. The utd wing looks a little small especially if diving steel tanks and a stage or two, or ccr and two steel tanks.

I think maybe taking a razor and intergrating a nomad or appropriate wing might be good. The new nomad wings are really big now, I have one of the originals I believe (45 lb ish) and don't really need anything large for what i been diving.

A nomad is probably the best out of the box solutions.