Skills

[faze]

I agree with most of the above. Sadly once a year divers have little or no interest in improving their skills post certification (and let’s face it how many of us were spot on with our buoyance/trim at the end of our entry level course).

We insist that all divers take an orientation dive if we don’t know them and depending on what they are like under the water simply will not allow them to dive certain sites if we deem them to delicate (naturally unless they want to do some additional work).

So we can be critical of the divers – but dive centres also have to take some responsibility.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

There is a lot of unfair criticism in this tread pertaining to instruction. If you want to finger point, point at the divers who do not do what they are taught. Most bad skill divers on excursions are casual divers who were better right after certification, but in the ensuing years go on a dive trip every 12 to 24 months, and do not keep up their skills, their environmental awareness, or safety practices. I encourage all our divers to be active divers, to have a pool session if they are out of the water for 6 months or more before going on a trip. I am getting a bit tired of instructor bashing, especially instructors the critics do not know, have not met, and have not observed. Sure there are some porr instructors, and some great ones. I have encountered the less than up to speed divers on boat excursions, just like you all have. That is one reason I keep up my professional credential and insurance and skills - so I an Debbie can dive our own profile, and do our own thing.
If you have read our books, you know we are not above criticizing other divers, but only those we have observed doing something inappropriate. I think all posters would be well served to limiting their criticism, especially of instruction, and instructors, to that same basis. There. I feel better now.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Wayne at DiveSeekers]

The problems come from several reasons.

1. Instructors: I find that most never further their education after becoming an Instructor. So if they don't further their education how can you pull from experience and incorporate that into your classes and how do you expect your students to further their education as well. Secondly, I feel that instructors are afraid to tell someone that they are not doing something right (don't understand), so all you here is "Great Job".

2. Divers: We are finding that a lot of divers these days are taking OW and that's it, not continuing education (problem 1t). There is so much to cover in an OW class that you are not going to be a rock star overnight (4 ow dives). When teaching, we are working with the divers all the time (in water & out) and are constantly giving feedback and getting them better. After class, that feedback is gone, no evaluation. Divers are just allowing these things to happen! We actually teach our students to debrief each other after the dive! How was I with my communication? How was my buoyancy? Etc... Thus the feedback is always there. BTW, we teach advanced finning techniques from the start of our OW program then our students take PPB so that we can refine and progress their Buoyancy/Skills even more, Buoyancy is an art and it doesn't come over night. Secondly, you (as an instructor) can't control what the diver does away from class. I see some where they apply everything you taught them outside of class and they turn out great. On the other hand, I see a bunch, that shortly after a class, divers get LAZY and don't apply techniques that were taught.

3. Policing: Resorts! To me this is HUGE! Forget about a diver wearing gloves! These reefs take a long time to develop, well START CARING! If you see a diver with a dangling Octo, Console, Camera, do something about it! If you see a diver or photographer (worst offenders) kicking/damaging the reef do something about it! Maybe 3 strikes and your out??? Unfortunately, I think this is a dream and will never happen because they don't want a bad reputation (for caring) and lose business. I can see the post on SB, "I got kicked off a boat in Bonaire! How dare they!"

I personally say something when I see someone kicking up the reef. Divers need reinforcement (some don't even realize that they are doing it) to get better. The big question is ......What are you doing about it? How many divers post about seeing these things going on but you rarely see them post about actually saying something something to the diver. I'm not saying to teach them a class but if the resorts/instructors aren't doing it, well then take it upon yourself to try and change it. To me, looking the other way doesn't help.

 

[miked]

It isn't the flutter kick that is causing them to hit the reef and silt up the bottom, I'd guess poor buoyancy and trim first.

Good comment.


It's sad to see how many people on SB just hate the "vacation diver", and think that they all suck. Really, they all don't suck. Some have good reasons for falling into that (vacation diver) category. Some actually care about skills and the environment. Let's not rake an entire category of divers over the coals for the actions of some in that class.

end of rant.

 

[DepthCharge]

It isn't the flutter kick that is causing them to hit the reef and silt up the bottom, I'd guess poor buoyancy and trim first.

As was pointed out to me in another thread, it is not that standards have changed but what level of skill an instructor considers acceptable to meet those standards. To me the end product is appalling regardless of which is at fault, and shows the Agency has no effective quality control over the end product.


Bob
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I think it's actually a combination of both. However a frog kick is a bit more "forgiving" (IMHO). One of my questions is why teach the flutter kick? Start at the entry level with the best practice. With a frog kick I can be just inches off the bottom and not leave a silt trail.
Reading the comments, I see a trend to a self-fulfiling prophesy. Allow low standards, you get low standards. (Not saying anyone here is saying to allow low standards, but several comments are saying that low standard are being accepted.)
Later,
John

 

[Lorenzoid]

It's sad to see how many people on SB just hate the "vacation diver", and think that they all suck. Really, they all don't suck. Some have good reasons for falling into that (vacation diver) category. Some actually care about skills and the environment. Let's not rake an entire category of divers over the coals for the actions of some in that class.

"Vacation diver" here, and I've never felt "raked over the coals" by the various threads that have made generalizations about us. I think it's a useful and descriptive term. No doubt, though, a huge number of vacation divers don't seem to care about skills, brushing against the reef, their air consumption, etiquette towards other divers, or much else beyond getting through the dive at hand. I applaud the efforts of experienced divers who try to show them the light, but I think the effort would be wasted on many and might even offend some.

I work in a profession that requires continuing education, so I understand and support the concept. I'm always trying to work on something that will improve my diving, whether it's taking a class or practicing skills with my buddy. I suspect most vacation divers who are also reasonably active SB members do similarly.

 

[Mike]

So why aren't the agencies being brought up to the 20th century?

Later,
John

PADI is revamping their course criteria. The biggest change will be getting instructors to actually teach buoyancy, starting with no more sitting on the sand or a platform anymore!!! That alone should make a huge difference.

 

[nimoh]

I was divermaster in a PADI AOW class a while back where the instructor was trying to offer (IMO) great instruction on horizontal trim, buoyancy and propulsion techniques but the student just nodded and pretty much ignored the instruction, doing the bare minimum to pass the class. Later the student commented to me that they were only taking the class so that they could dive Devil's Throat on their upcoming Cozumel trip and weren't interested in "all these unnecessary skills".

I know of a few agencies such as GUE, NAUI and SDI (although I'm sure there are others) that allow their instructors to fail students based on attitude, but unfortunately this student met the minimum and passed. They may even be (although statistically unlikely lol) one of the divers the OP is complaining about.

My point is just that I agree with those that suggest it is not always bad training.

 

[scububa]

+1 on that I was going to point that out also. I have a couple of buddies that are instructors and they have been commenting on it lately. They are also tech divers and have always tried to impart buoyancy, but it's hard if another instructor is doing different and if the standards don't encourage you to address it.
But, the main point has been made. Everyone that gets in the water is not a diver. To me a diver is someone that CARES and is AWARE. They may not be perfect, but they observer, inquire and improve. And, close behind buoyancy is buddy skills followed by ability to really plan and follow their own dive.

PADI is revamping their course criteria. The biggest change will be getting instructors to actually teach buoyancy, starting with no more sitting on the sand or a platform anymore!!! That alone should make a huge difference.

 

[DepthCharge]

I was divermaster in a PADI AOW class a while back where the instructor was trying to offer (IMO) great instruction on horizontal trim, buoyancy and propulsion techniques but the student just nodded and pretty much ignored the instruction, doing the bare minimum to pass the class. Later the student commented to me that they were only taking the class so that they could dive Devil's Throat on their upcoming Cozumel trip and weren't interested in "all these unnecessary skills".

I know of a few agencies such as GUE, NAUI and SDI (although I'm sure there are others) that allow their instructors to fail students based on attitude, but unfortunately this student met the minimum and passed. They may even be (although statistically unlikely lol) one of the divers the OP is complaining about.

My point is just that I agree with those that suggest it is not always bad training.

I am glad that PADI is revamping...long overdue in my opinion. (yeah I know about opinions........)

There-in lies the crux of the problem the US has become a mecca for mediocrity. Everybody passes, no one fails, every one gets a trophy ETC. This is not just in diving, it's in every facet of life..............OK, off my soap box and back to our regulary scheduled program.......................
Later,
John