Soft plate BP/W vs. hard plate vs. back inflate BCDs

[akivisuals]

Here is my take. Since you are 5'4", I recommend against standard size plates. You definitely want a short pattern plate. I only know DSS, Halcyon, and DiveRite if they still make one. Most of other only make regular size plate. It is not like the regular size won't work, but I am pretty sure you will find short plate more comfortable.

The practical difference between backplate is main the band angle. DSS and DiveRite plate is quite flat while Halcyon has a deeper band. Each has its advantage. It is a personal preference. I prefer deeper band plate, so I ended up with Halcyon small plate.

If you plan to NOT use a STA, DSS has a significant better implementation than other. It is one aspect worth paying attentionto. If you plan to use STA, the the difference is a wash. Again, it is persoanl preference. I prefer STA

As for harness, basic vs comfort, it is mostly a personal preference. I would recommend you first go with hogarthian once piece harness. It can be make by 15ft of webbing at $0.75/ft and some hardware (about $15) from DGX. After a few dives, if you still think you need a comfort harness, then you can buy a set. You can reuse the hardware and you waste only the webbing. If you go the other direction (like myself), you will waste the fancy harness ($100). This is me. I started with DiveRite transplate harness, switch to one piece basic and never miss the padding or the adjustment.

When I spoke with Tobin, he actually recommended their medium plate. Although I am 5'4", my legs are on the shorter side with a longer torso. When I measured my back for a DiveRite harness size it wound up being a medium.

Are single tank adapters recommended for backplates? From what I understand, some DSS wings have parts that support a single tank.

What about the Transplate harness didn't you like that caused you to switch to a hogarthian harness? Just curious as to your experience. Thanks!

---------- Post added February 18th, 2015 at 01:15 AM ----------

I've got the DiveRite Transplate harness (2011 vintage) and started with a Voyager wing, which has 35 lbs of lift. I'm about 5'10" and 165 lbs. If I'm diving in a 7mm full suit, 5/3 hooded vest, gloves and HP80, I normally have 2 lbs of lead with me. With a HP80 and the steel backplate, a 35 lb wing will float your rig, but a 25 lb wing will struggle to keep it floating on the surface if you have other stuff attached, like heavier lights or game bags full of lobster. When I'm diving wet, I now usually dive with the DiveRite 25 lb lift wing (Travel wing), which is a little smaller. When I dive dry I need more weight, so use the Voyager wing then, or if I'm helping out with a rescue class or cleanup day and need more lift. If you hunt lobster or sprearfish, consider more lift. The DiveRite wings are nice because they're donut shape, so the air pocket can move freely all the way around. Also, if you get a puncture, the inner bladder is easy to replace or patch

I'm a recreational diver, so enjoy the comfort of the backpack style harness. Several of my dive buddies started with the continuous webbing, then switched over to the TransPlate harness. If I was ever going to get into technical diving, I can spend the $15 or so for webbing and relace the harness. In the meantime, I'm into comfort and enjoyment. If you switch between wet and dry, the TransPlate is nice because it's adjustable

As far as backplates, technically one is as good as another. In reality, they are different shapes and bend angles, which definitely affects your comfort. Some are way more expensive than others. Before you buy one, I suggest you try a few shops and try the plates against your back to see what is most comfortable. Personally, I like the bend angle on the DiveRite, find the DSS a bit too flat and less comfortable, and generally am less impressed with the Hollis quality. Halcyon is outside my price range. I suggest you try some of the shops that stock different brands (Hollywood Divers has Halcyon and DiveRite), try them on and see what is comfortable to you. Buying the "best" brand if it's not as comfortable is not going to be as enjoyable as something that feels better to you. In general, DiveRite and Hollis backpack style harnesses should work on any backplate, but the brand-specific adjustable harnesses like Halcyon or DSS only work with their matching backplates. Also, same manufacturer wings and backplates will always work together, whereas mixing and matching might not work together as well

Serious tech divers scoff at my TransPlate setup, because I also have an Atomic SS-1 (like a Scubapro Air-2) for the combination inflator/octopus, but again, I'm a recreational diver.

---------- Post added February 17th, 2015 at 10:49 PM ----------

If you can wait until June, you can check out all the brands at the Long Beach Scuba show

I wish I could wait until June, but I'd go nuts being dry for that long. I'm already itching to get back in the water.

Like you, I'm more of a recreational diver. I also hunt lobster and spear fish. In addition to that, I am a photographer by trade and at some point will be bringing a larger camera, housing, and lighting with me. Tobin suggested that their LCD20 might work for me based on the exposure protection that I have now and my height/weight but that wasn't taking into account all the other stuff that I might be bringing along. He also suggested that I see exactly how much lead is required to sink my gear since I have a swimming pool to test in. He also mentioned that the short HP80s have a tendency to pinch the bottom of donut style wings and suggested the LCD because it's a horseshoe design. Have you had any issues with your wings and the HP80s?

As far as the Transplate harness goes, I've not ruled that out completely. Part of me still thinks that the Transplate or Hollis Elite would be more comfy for the treks up and down the stairs/cliffs etc. that I do. I guess I'll have to see. Have you noticed that it is significantly more comfortable than a simple webbing harness?

 

[seaseadee]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with the jacket. Now you know why us BP/W users constantly harp on them for being too gimmicky, bell & whistles, no way to repair them, ect. We're not trying to be mean about it, we're just trying to help save someone the hassle of dealing with a similar issue that you had. And of course to help people save money in the short and long term, and have a better, more stable BCD option.

With all that said, Look into getting a completre kit set up like a BP/W unit from DRIS or others have complete units. Hog and Diverite have complete units.
My preference is to have a 360 donut wing that you can unzip to clean out well once in a while and also DIY repair (patch the bladder) if you ever have to.
For Socal you'll want a 5- 6 lb plate and about a 30# wing. Get a single one piece harness with crotch strap.
That plate could also be used for doubles.
Unfortunately it's probably a little too heavy for travel to warm water. For that you might want a separate unit. We've been all over the subject before about a system that's both good for warm and cold water, and if it gets down to splitting hairs about it there no real unit that will do both well. For cold you need a heavy plate with a bigger wing, and for warm you need almost no weight on the plate and a small wing.
I like hard plates better than soft plates. Soft plates don't hold the tank stable enough IMO.

As far as the hiking issue.
Don't look at a unit necessarily just for it's topside comfort hiking tanks. That's part of the problem with jacket BC's, they feel real nice in the store but suck for diving.
Get a unit that works best for diving and suck up the issues with hiking. ANY scuba BC is not really designed as a hiking backpack, it's supposed to be used for diving. They all have their shortcomings when it comes to hiking. Just get the one that works best for diving and that would be a BP/W....IMO.

I switched from an aqualung balance with al80 tanks to the Freedom plate with steel tanks. The key issue for me was the fact that I dropped 8 lbs of lead with my 3mil suit. Also, the plate, wing and webbing was also 3-4lbs(?) lighter than the balance. That meant they the amount of dry weight I was lugging around also dropped by the same amount. You may want to consider this in your figuring of the choices.

 

[eelnoraa]

When I spoke with Tobin, he actually recommended their medium plate. Although I am 5'4", my legs are on the shorter side with a longer torso. When I measured my back for a DiveRite harness size it wound up being a medium.

Are single tank adapters recommended for backplates? From what I understand, some DSS wings have parts that support a single tank.

What about the Transplate harness didn't you like that caused you to switch to a hogarthian harness? Just curious as to your experience. Thanks!

Plate size is kind of experimental. I am 5'6", 140lb. I started with regular size plate because everyone suggested regular. It works OK, not unaccetable. My main issue is when I am in trim with back arch, my hip bone will push the plate (and actually entire rig) up. If I shorten crotch strap to prevent his, the lower edge of the plate will dig into my hip bond, kind of uncomfortably. I tried many thing to fix this, including drilling lower holes on the backplate, non works particular well. After 2 years of this, I finally decide to try a small size back plate. And problem solved.

Having the above said, I am not here to disagree Tobin. In fact, his advice is probably the best given the information he has. But keep in mind if you find medium plate too long, shorter plate is an option with DSS.

STA is very much personal preference. I prefer it & deeper band plate so that 1st stage is further from my head so no head bump. Some like the flattest plate possible with no STA so tank is closer to their back for better stability. Whatever you start with, if you have issue with it, you can always try a different setup.

As for Transplate harness, I started with this and used it for 2 years. It was OK due to no comparison. Then I decided to try the one piece, it is just better. DR transpalate is just less comfortable, in water. The issues is the shoulder pad for is too wide and stiff. It tents to slide off, and sometime dig into my neck or arm pit. And due to the quick adjustment nature, the harness length is usually not at the optimal place. I found myself mess with the harness adjustment in a dive.

If you are wearing 7mm + 5mm, I see no reason you need any padding at all in water, or if you need to hike down short stair to enter water. Your suits are thick enough. If you do long hike to your site in thin street clothing, I can see the benefit of padding. Another advantage of adjustable harness is the ease of getting in and out.

 

[TSandM]

Since you are 5'4", I recommend against standard size plates. You definitely want a short pattern plate.

I disagree with this; I used to be 5'4" but I'm now, as it turns out, 5'2" (age is an awful thing) and the short plate is too short for me if the top of the plate is where it needs to be. It really depends, in that height range, on whether you are long-legged or long-torsoed.

I know the fancy harness looks like a better idea, but really, it may not be. I know a number of people who have bought them, and later gone to the simple harness, just because it's simple and you can adjust everything to put things precisely where you want them.

 

[geoff w]

When I spoke with Tobin, he actually recommended their medium plate. Although I am 5'4", my legs are on the shorter side with a longer torso. When I measured my back for a DiveRite harness size it wound up being a medium.

Are single tank adapters recommended for backplates? From what I understand, some DSS wings have parts that support a single tank.

What about the Transplate harness didn't you like that caused you to switch to a hogarthian harness? Just curious as to your experience. Thanks!

---------- Post added February 18th, 2015 at 01:15 AM ----------



I wish I could wait until June, but I'd go nuts being dry for that long. I'm already itching to get back in the water.

Like you, I'm more of a recreational diver. I also hunt lobster and spear fish. In addition to that, I am a photographer by trade and at some point will be bringing a larger camera, housing, and lighting with me. Tobin suggested that their LCD20 might work for me based on the exposure protection that I have now and my height/weight but that wasn't taking into account all the other stuff that I might be bringing along. He also suggested that I see exactly how much lead is required to sink my gear since I have a swimming pool to test in. He also mentioned that the short HP80s have a tendency to pinch the bottom of donut style wings and suggested the LCD because it's a horseshoe design. Have you had any issues with your wings and the HP80s?

As far as the Transplate harness goes, I've not ruled that out completely. Part of me still thinks that the Transplate or Hollis Elite would be more comfy for the treks up and down the stairs/cliffs etc. that I do. I guess I'll have to see. Have you noticed that it is significantly more comfortable than a simple webbing harness?

A HP80 will sink my old ScubaPro Classic jacket BC in my swimming pool without any lead! I've worn a drysuit with my Classic jacket BCD and my HP80 and easily sank with no lead

My wife is 5'3" and the regular DiveRite steel backplate fits her fine. She has a medium TransPlate harness on her cold water setup. I bought the lite s/s DiveRite backplate and an XL TransPlate harness from someone here on ScubaBoard. I cinched it down and it fit my wife just fine when we went to Palau. There is a lot of adjustability in the TransPlate, both in initial setup and in actual use.

When we went to Palau, I bought another lite s/s DiveRite backplate and some 2" webbing for me. It was fine in the water, but I found it less comfortable walking around on the dive boat compared to the TransPlate harness. As you can see, everyone has an opinion for both options. You're the one who has to dive the thing. I suggest you try out both the TransPlate and continuous webbing harness to see which you like more for yourself. You should also try several different steel backplates to see which shape and bend angle fits your back more comfortably.

When I talked to Tobin a while ago about setups, he is clearly not a fan of HP80s. Both the DiveRite Voyager and Travel donut wings work fine with HP80s. Since you're somewhere in the area, I'm happy to meet you some time so you can try on my DiveRite setups.

I did put a hole in my Voyager wing through my own total stupidity and carelessness. I was rushing off, threw everything in a dunk tub to get the sand off, then threw something heavy and sharp on top. On my next dive, I felt like I ate too much for dinner the night before, because my wing had a small hole. I patched it just fine, but ordered a replacement bladder from DiveRite, which zipped right in. The nice thing about DiveRite wings is the can be repaired, even if temporarily, when you are halfway around the world on a once-in-a-lifetime vacation, instead of having to send it in for service

You ever do the coastal cleanup day or fill your game bag with lobster? I don't think a 20 lb lift wing is going to float you when you add weights

Comfort walking up and down stairs, cliffs, etc. is definitely nice and not something tech divers who only dive off of boats factor in. Even walking across a few hundred yards of sand is noticeable

 

[akivisuals]

A HP80 will sink my old ScubaPro Classic jacket BC in my swimming pool without any lead! I've worn a drysuit with my Classic jacket BCD and my HP80 and easily sank with no lead

My wife is 5'3" and the regular DiveRite steel backplate fits her fine. She has a medium TransPlate harness on her cold water setup. I bought the lite s/s DiveRite backplate and an XL TransPlate harness from someone here on ScubaBoard. I cinched it down and it fit my wife just fine when we went to Palau. There is a lot of adjustability in the TransPlate, both in initial setup and in actual use.

When we went to Palau, I bought another lite s/s DiveRite backplate and some 2" webbing for me. It was fine in the water, but I found it less comfortable walking around on the dive boat compared to the TransPlate harness. As you can see, everyone has an opinion for both options. You're the one who has to dive the thing. I suggest you try out both the TransPlate and continuous webbing harness to see which you like more for yourself. You should also try several different steel backplates to see which shape and bend angle fits your back more comfortably.

When I talked to Tobin a while ago about setups, he is clearly not a fan of HP80s. Both the DiveRite Voyager and Travel donut wings work fine with HP80s. Since you're somewhere in the area, I'm happy to meet you some time so you can try on my DiveRite setups.

I did put a hole in my Voyager wing through my own total stupidity and carelessness. I was rushing off, threw everything in a dunk tub to get the sand off, then threw something heavy and sharp on top. On my next dive, I felt like I ate too much for dinner the night before, because my wing had a small hole. I patched it just fine, but ordered a replacement bladder from DiveRite, which zipped right in. The nice thing about DiveRite wings is the can be repaired, even if temporarily, when you are halfway around the world on a once-in-a-lifetime vacation, instead of having to send it in for service

You ever do the coastal cleanup day or fill your game bag with lobster? I don't think a 20 lb lift wing is going to float you when you add weights

Comfort walking up and down stairs, cliffs, etc. is definitely nice and not something tech divers who only dive off of boats factor in. Even walking across a few hundred yards of sand is noticeable

Thanks for your replies! They've helped me try to form some ideas about what I might like. Tomorrow I'll be headed to Hollywood Divers to rent a Halcyon BP/W and possibly a DiveRite Transplate BP/W to test out for the next few days. I want to see if theres a place where I can try out a DSS system too. I sent an email out to Tobin. Hopefully, I can try one out before I plunk down the cash for it. Going to sink my dive gear in my pool and see how much lead I need and do some tests as well to get my weighting and trim settled.

If you're planning on doing any diving this week, I'll be trying to go on Friday mid morning to test out the gear. If not, I'd love to try to meet up with you in Malibu to check out some of your rigs and get a dive in. Hopefully I'll be coming to a decision soon. Got some classes next month that I need my gear for.

 

[geoff w]

Thanks for your replies! They've helped me try to form some ideas about what I might like. Tomorrow I'll be headed to Hollywood Divers to rent a Halcyon BP/W and possibly a DiveRite Transplate BP/W to test out for the next few days. I want to see if theres a place where I can try out a DSS system too. I sent an email out to Tobin. Hopefully, I can try one out before I plunk down the cash for it. Going to sink my dive gear in my pool and see how much lead I need and do some tests as well to get my weighting and trim settled.

If you're planning on doing any diving this week, I'll be trying to go on Friday mid morning to test out the gear. If not, I'd love to try to meet up with you in Malibu to check out some of your rigs and get a dive in. Hopefully I'll be coming to a decision soon. Got some classes next month that I need my gear for.

I'm on the Big Island though Sunday, then on a business trip as soon as I get back until next Thursday. But certainly up for diving the weekend I'm back

Which classes? If anything tech, you should check with your instructor to make sure a TransPlate is acceptable. If something recreational like Rescue where you have to get out of gear in the water (or have someone do it to you), the quick release buckles on the TransPlate definitely beat continuous webbing, or Dry Suit where you need to change fit from diving wet

If you're going from a regular BC to a steel backplate and wing, taking off 6 to 8 pounds is a good starting point

 

[ams511]

As for harness, basic vs comfort, it is mostly a personal preference. I would recommend you first go with hogarthian once piece harness. It can be make by 15ft of webbing at $0.75/ft and some hardware (about $15) from DGX. After a few dives, if you still think you need a comfort harness, then you can buy a set. You can reuse the hardware and you waste only the webbing. If you go the other direction (like myself), you will waste the fancy harness ($100). This is me. I started with DiveRite transplate harness, switch to one piece basic and never miss the padding or the adjustment.

I recommend the opposite, and here is why. A deluxe harness is $55 and a basic harness is $39. If you purchase a deluxe harness first and decide you do not like it then you can purchase the webbing for $15 and reuse the hardware. So the total cost is $70. If you purchase the basic harness for $39 first and then want to purchase a deluxe harness, you need to purchase one for $55, so the total cost is $94. If you are able to fleabay the basic you may be able to reduce your cost but used harnesses do not sell well on eBay.

 

[tbone1004]

AMS, I'll have to beg to differ, your math is wrong. With the Dive Rite deluxe harness, you don't actually have to reweb it, sure you'll have an O-ring on the shoulders, but since it runs the same as the one piece harness through the backplate you don't actually have to reweb it if you don't want to, just remove the chest strap, tighten the shoulders, and you're good to go

 

[ams511]

AMS, I'll have to beg to differ, your math is wrong. With the Dive Rite deluxe harness, you don't actually have to reweb it, sure you'll have an O-ring on the shoulders, but since it runs the same as the one piece harness through the backplate you don't actually have to reweb it if you don't want to, just remove the chest strap, tighten the shoulders, and you're good to go

My math is correct if we are talking about the same deluxe harness. There is no way that I can see of going to a one piece continuous webbing harness (like TS&M and others recommend) without re-webbing the plate with new webbing. I personally do not have one but if you watch this video you can see what I mean. The only thing I can see reusing is the hardware. The webbing is already pre-cut. I used to recommend this option more in the past when the difference in cost between a plain harness and a deluxe harness was under $10. If the person hated the deluxe harness they were only out about $20.

If the person is OK with the chest rings, as you assume, then my recommendation makes even more financial sense. Golem gear also has a harness that is more like a one-piece harness but does have a quick release.