Strategies if an o-ring pops at depth

[*dave*]

You're welcome.....

Yes, there would likely be enough pressure maintained for the first stage to generate its rated IP.

Actually.... I don't know this to be true, as I've never tried it. Tonight, I'll put a reg on a tank with no O-Ring and find out, but I suspect my first statement will prove true.

Hi Dave,
Thanks for your thoughtful response.

You mention that you could feather your valve until you got to the surface. That would imply that you could still get some air supply to your second despite the o-ring failure. How is this possible, for my information? Even without the seal is the seal between the tank and first stage strong enough to deliver some gas?

TIA,
J

 

[InTheDrink]

Some resort locations will have a small supply of DIN tanks, but you'll likely need to call ahead. There are "convertible" or "pro" valves that have a yoke insert that can be removed with an allen wrench to become a DIN valve, but you're not likely to find these on typical aluminum tanks at resort locations. You can also convert many DIN regulators to yoke with a few simple tools, or get a DIN-to-yoke adapter for no-hassle conversion on the spot. In short, you have have many options, but when I travel, I always assume that DIN is not available, and will carry an adapter with me (or convert my reg before leaving).

Thanks for that - very interesting indeed. I've just checked out a couple of sites with the Yoke-to-DIN adapters - any personal reccommendations?

Thanks for the top tip

J

 

[sabbath999]

I've never had an o-ring blow whilst underwater. Can anyone with more knowledge advise whether the symptoms are catastrophic (in terms of gas loss) as I can't imagine air would be delivered to the second stage. In which case I'm guessing getting to a buddy sharpish or CESA would be the only options?

Well, even with an o-ring fully blown it will take some time for a tank to empty assuming you had several hundred pounds of air... and they are far more likely to blow at the beginning of your dive (not surprisingly when the tank has the most pressure on it) so chances are you have lots of air and are just descending.

We had this happen on one of our Kona dives. My wife was OK and started to descend, and poof all the sudden she was engulfed in a torrent of bubbles. I swam over to her (we stay CLOSE), examined it and thumbed the dive. She could tell something was wrong but not what... we were no deeper than 30 feet, and we just did a normal safe slow ascent with me there holding on to her ready to pass my hose if she needed it. We went back to the boat, she took off her bc and the captain put a new tank on it and dropped it in the water, and down we went to do the dive.

Bottom line, it's just like anything. If you are team diving, then you will have a buddy nearby to pass you gas if you need it. If you are not team diving, you will have your backup air solution pre-configured and are ready to go with a pony or whatever else you are using.

If you are SUPPOSED to be team diving but are not (buddy separation), and you don't have a backup air supply handy, then after your tank runs dry you are going to get to do a CESA...

IMHO this is why dive planning is so important. You and your buddy should be on the same page, or if you are going to go solo you need to know what you are doing with your backup gas ahead of time.

If you pay attention to gas management, then it simply isn't more than an annoyance that may cost you a dive... because a good dive plan for a buddy team means you should always have plenty of gas to get both divers to the surface on one divers air... and somebody who is diving solo will have carefully planned out his backup air as well.

That's my 2 cents. I am not expert, but that's how I see it.

 

[paddler3d]

I'm a big fan of DIN for this very reason but is it viable in most locations? Will they have DIN tanks? Or is it (god I'm clueless) that the yoke fitting can be unscrewed from the tank to leave a DIN fitting? I think I've seen this in the past but could well have been dreaming.

J

If your regs are currently yoke, convert them to DIN. Most reg manufactures have DIN conversion kits. You can then save the yoke and voila, you can go either way. The yoke will typically screw onto the regs DIN connector. The only drawback is the 1st stage protrudes a bit more towards your head.

I've seen a lot of Dive Rite regs out of the box that are DIN with the yoke conversion.

There are also a lot of valves out there that will switch between 200bar DIN and yoke. Using a 6.5-7mm allen wrench you unscrew a plug from the tank valve and it is a DIN valve.

All my tanks are DIN and when I travel with them, I've gotten into the habit of calling ahead to make sure they can fill DIN. I'm leaving for Bimini, Bahamas tomorrow and I called two dive shops on the island and they can fill DIN tanks and their rentals were the DIN to yoke, or yoke to DIN, valves.

I've never seen a DIN o-ring blow. I've seen a lot of yoke o-rings blow. I've only ever seen them blow at the surface and shortly after the tank has been turned on.

 

[InTheDrink]

You're welcome.....

Yes, there would likely be enough pressure maintained for the first stage to generate its rated IP.

Actually.... I don't know this to be true, as I've never tried it. Tonight, I'll put a reg on a tank with no O-Ring and find out, but I suspect my first statement will prove true.

Well I'll wait with baited breath so! Who says Monday nights are boring

If we don't hear back by this time tomorrow we'll commence the search pattern

Thanks again,
J

 

[InTheDrink]

Well, even wit h an o-ring fully blown it will take some time for a tank to empty... and they are far more likely to blow at the beginning of your dive (not surprisinly when the tank has the most pressure on it) so chances are you have lots of air and are just descending.

We had this happen on one of our Kona dives. My wife was OK and started to descend, and poof all the sudden she was engulfed in a torrent of bubbles. I swam over to her (we stay CLOSE), examined it and thumbed the dive. She could tell something was wrong but not what... we were no deeper than 30 feet, and we just did a normal safe slow ascent with me there holding on to her ready to pass my hose if she needed it. We went back to the boat, she took off her bc and the captain put a new tank on it and dropped it in the water, and down we went to do the dive.

Bottom line, it's just like anything. If you are team diving, then you will have a buddy nearby to pass you gas if you need it. If you are not team diving, you will have your backup air solution pre-configured and are ready to go with a pony or whatever else you are using.

If you are SUPPOSED to be team diving but are not (buddy separation), and you don't have a backup air supply handy, then after your tank runs dry you are going to get to do a CESA...

IMHO this is why dive planning is so important. You and your buddy should be on the same page, or if you are going to go solo you need to know what you are doing with your backup gas ahead of time.

If you pay attention to gas management, then it simply isn't more than an annoyance that may cost you a dive... because a good dive plan for a buddy team means you should always have plenty of gas to get both divers to the surface on one divers air... and somebody who is diving solo will have carefully planned out his backup air as well.

That's my 2 cents. I am not expert, but that's how I see it.

I agree with you entirely but I like to plan for all eventualities. Some I'll learn organically but if I can fast forward some of the learning with other's experience on SB I'm very happy with that. I've had a couple of occasions where buddy separation was inevitable and wouldn't you know kit failed at the same time so I never say never.

J

 

[Gombessa]

Thanks for that - very interesting indeed. I've just checked out a couple of sites with the Yoke-to-DIN adapters - any personal reccommendations?

They're almost all the same, since one end fits on an industry-standard 200 or 300-bar DIN connection, and the other fits on an industry standard tank yoke valve

If it looks like the thing on the left, you can use it with a DIN reg:

 

[scuba dew]

i had a dive buddys o ring blow at 70-80 feet at hospitla hole, he was a master scuba diver and he freaked out he could not breath do to the blow out, i was leading a a few people around and just happend to look back his dive buddy left him alone and i had to swim as fast as i could to get to him, as i was swimming to him he stared to dump his gear to shoot to the serfist , i grab him and the first thing he did was grab my 2 stage in stad of the one in my mouth so the first breath was water, so now i had a panick diver on my hands i had to get be hind him and shove my first stage in his mouth and hold it there while he was bafing , and then brought him to the surfist safely,

 

[InTheDrink]

Well two things I'm hearing:

1. A blown o-ring should still deliver gas to second stage (depending on depth and gas remaining I would imagine)
2. DIN is the way to go and there are solutions to be ambidextrous in this (yoke and DIN fittings). I've got a yoke regs but I know they also do the DIN variety. Wonder how much grief it'd be to change. In any event, probably not something I'll do immediately given 1 above.

Thanks all and sundry - what a great resource, huh?

Cheers,
J

 

[InTheDrink]

i had a dive buddys o ring blow at 70-80 feet at hospitla hole, he was a master scuba diver and he freaked out he could not breath do to the blow out, i was leading a a few people around and just happend to look back his dive buddy left him alone and i had to swim as fast as i could to get to him, as i was swimming to him he stared to dump his gear to shoot to the serfist , i grab him and the first thing he did was grab my 2 stage in stad of the one in my mouth so the first breath was water, so now i had a panick diver on my hands i had to get be hind him and shove my first stage in his mouth and hold it there while he was bafing , and then brought him to the surfist safely,

Ok, so this is the kind of nightmare I had originally envisaged prior to my first post.

Well done for your reactions. Phew.

BTW, I'm guessing when you say second stage you mean octo and by first stage you mean primary. Not nit picking, just trying to avoid confusion.

Cheers,
J